T O P

Now who’s laughing

Now who’s laughing

Khazukan-Kazakit

Wouldn’t necrons be capable of the same thing? Given how many of their weapons completely atomize whoever got shot


redsonatnight

Necron weapons remove armour layer by layer, so there's a lot of fluff mentions of Space Marines losing initial layers of armour and even skin before turning to dodge or kill the shooter. Railguns are penetrative, which means the geneseed could be ruined before the Marine has time to react.


British_Tea_Company

If the trailer for 9e was any indication, it looks like Space Marine armor prevents the person from getting atomized and instead he's probably just losing enough flesh to die.


Ginno_the_Seer

Yea but we need to make Tau seem like a bigger threat than they are. Edit: also i don't know what part of the body holds the geneseed but presumably any weapon could cause damage to the organ if correctly aimed, if you want to know why Tau railguns are being pointed out the way they are re-read the initial comment.


DeLoxley

Aren't they implanted in the neck region? PRetty much any attack is going to end up going that way, including missiles, meltas, gauss... like there are a lot of ways to liquidfy a body's chest cavity without having to say 'railgun'


assasin1598

Theyre implanted in the neck and in the chest. And the entire progenoid gland isnt removed, but merely its special germ cells that are stored in the progenoid glands, which help other genseed to work better. The germ cells are what is being removed and in this case you can merely think of them as sperm and eggs and when properly nurtured turn in to the 19 geneseed. In this case you can think of it that geneseed is created the same way as humans are concieved.


Schlapatzjenc

Germs are stored in the progenoid glands.


Thecommysar

As far as I remember Astartes are supposed to have an additional layer of natural armour just under the skin, that protects their jiggly bits, so even if you kill a marine through blood loss or removing the skin it can still keep the geneseed safe. Presumably the railgun is one of the few weapons with enough penetration to pierce through both layers of armour and still have enough energy to damage a large portion of the marine's body


mylittlepurplelady

>Railguns are renowned for their deadliness to enemy armour at extreme ranges. The cylindrical projectile it fires can hammer straight through Power Armour and even redoubtable Tactical Dreadnought Armour with ease, passing through at such incredible velocity that the sudden burst of pressure followed by violent decompression reduces all living matter inside to a tangle of semi-liquid mush. Even a Space Marine's enhanced physiology is no match for such pinpoint devastation. Basically itll turn anything inside the power armor into soup


DeLoxley

Plus, so many weapons do exactly that. The Orks literally have a gun that works by putting a live angry squig inside a target, pretty sure that'll ruin anyone's day.


didido_two

After short thinking i think the only Xeno weapon that dosnt dmg geneseed should be shuriken wepaons. Maybe Harlequins Neutral weapon. But beside this everything is some what either a Biolocial Weapon or Atomises the Target


magnificentballsack

Most ork guns would probbebly leave the geneseed intact


didido_two

true true i Completly forget the Chunky Bois


Thunderbird_Anthares

do you know what hydrostatic shock is?


Therealgyroth

Huh, good point


Ginno_the_Seer

No.


TFS_Sierra

Most succinctly described as “haha shockwave go brrrrr” It’s the concept that a projectile (more specifically a bullet or other fired weapon) “can produce a pressure wave that causes remote neural damage, subtle damage in neural tissues and/or rapid incapacitating effects in living targets.” So really, the railgun hitting anywhere on the Marine could theoretically send a wave through their body, rupturing said gland even if it isn’t a direct hit.


lekiu

so basically, a projectile hitting flesh so hard that the flesh starts to act like liquid.


didido_two

Flesh goes wooble woooble


oncr

That's exactly it. It's why irl rifles blow out cavities while lower velocity rounds like many pistols leave holes.


Olix_09

Shouldn't bolter cause similar effect assuming if it were to hit body and not armor?


Thunderbird_Anthares

everything causes it, to varying degrees... its a natural way of how projectiles dissipate energy and basically a signifier of how much of material was displaced and how quickly it happened - naturally carrying that wave of energy and transferring it further as it goes. bolters tend to not do a whole lot more than a nasty ragged hole... until the bolt explodes, where they make a BIG hole problem with railguns is that while the projectile doesnt explode... it has so much energy that even dumping as relatively little as it will into a target... it effectively is an explosion, everywhere it comes into contact bruh i love ballistics


Volcanicrage

Yeah, but 40k weapon fluff is pretty much completely nonsensical. Keep in mind that an Astartes bolter canonically has enough recoil to break a man's arm, even though the main feature of Gyrojets (besides being very light and compact) is that they're almost completely recoilless.


HurrDurrDethKnet

Bolt rounds are two-stage projectiles. The bullet is initially propelled from the gun by a standard powder charge and the rocket/gyrojet kicks in afterward. That's why they have recoil.


assasin1598

Because youre thinking of gyro jets. Whenyou look at most depiction of bolter, they also eject casings, meaning that its like a hybrid between a real bullet and gyro jet. First phase of firing is the same as with what happens with every bullet, bullet flies out of barrel thanks to internal explosion and once the bullet leaves the bolter barrel than it acts like gyro jet. So already at the beginning it already has initial high speed which is enough for penetrating armour and than it gains even more speed, giving it even more armour penetration. If it were purely gyro jet alone, than theres no way it would penetrate even standard guardsman armour and would simply act as HE. Tl:DR real bullet go brrr, than gyro jet go brrr.


Kamenev_Drang

Yeah but poor ap


Generaltiti

Well, not really. The main "damage dealing" of the bolter isn't it's force of impact, but the explosion afterwards. The effect probably doesn't have the time to take place before the explosion obliterate the target.


BaconCheeseZombie

Sounds dope but gauss just reduces you down to a puff of smoke and bolts explode on impact, so kinda lame for the setting


assasin1598

That really depends on what material the projectile is. Seeing we already built a railgun here on earth, than can penetrate a targets, i dont think the Tau will have any problem.


The_Incel_Slayer

Or or, hear me out here, two different things can be hated. Aghast, the shock! 40k fanboys aren't 40k fanboys until they manage to find a way to shit on the Tau for the fuck of it.


ChayofBarrel

Ah yes, because nobody comes across as overly powerful in the 40k universe like the infant child of the galaxy. *looks over at the Space Marines* Yup… T’au are the OP overhyped ones. Definitely.


RevSerpent

True but I want to give thumbs up to that one Battle Brother in 9th edition intro who gets a direct hit from a gauss flayer and only stops for a few seconds to shake it off (before the scene cuts we see him start running again). I'd imagine a lot of stuff that can reliably pierce the Power Armor and kill the Astartes inside would do so much damage that the gene-seed would get destroyed as well. This is just a needless piece of ~~Tau propaganda~~ fluff.


garaks_tailor

Now i can unsee the effect sabot rounds are known for having on tank crews but on space marine armor. A small entry hole and a relatively small exit hole and 20 yards of space marine tartar scattered in that direction leaving a mostly empty suit.


converter-bot

20 yards is 18.29 meters


pugesh

Chad


Kamenev_Drang

Sabots dont do that. It's a myth


VelphiDrow

Sabot is a classification of rounds. Not a specific type


Torchwood-5

Only now do I realize how stupid the process to create a space marine is.


pierresito

railguns were also the tau answer to titans. "Theres a giant fucking battle suit!" "I dunno, just strap a railgun to a stealthbomber and shoot it?"


major_calgar

“Sir, it’s the size of most buildings” “Then shoot it multiple times I don’t fucking know”


garaks_tailor

"How about....we arm a corvette with railguns and take out the bulky sensor package and oack it full of battlesuits and turn it into a dropship?"


major_calgar

The manta is a cool model that is basically the definition of Tau strategy. So props to them


zpjester

"Hear me out... Strap 2 railguns to an even bigger stealth bomber. Then make the Flying Dorito that has 2 railguns and an entire army inside"


the-tall-man-

*muiltiple buildings


Themoneymancan

Really all you need is 2 solid shots in the knee joints and its doooown


Hunttron

Wait. Wasn't their answer planes in general?


Bearzerker46

Just making a big gun to shoot the giant robot to blow it to bits seems more practical than countering with your own ~~gundam~~ giant fighting robot. Although it is less fun.


wdcipher

I can imagine that not going too well for them. Voidshields are stupid


pierresito

It went well for them. The tau concern themselves more with the space marines than the huge bipedal walking castles


The_Incel_Slayer

It countered them pretty well, humbled the Titan cohorts into using actual tactics by destroying a few precious Titans with massed railgun fire.


mylittlepurplelady

>During the Imperial breakthrough on Taros at the Iracunda Isthmus, a single Tiger Shark AX-1-0 came in low towards the Imperial force and **fired off a salvo of Missiles that overloaded the Void Shield generators of the Warhound-class Titan** Advensis Primaris. Shots from the AX-1-0's Heavy Railguns penetrated the centre of the Titan's hull, causing the critically damaged war machine to stagger and fall. Shocked Imperial commanders had thought their mighty combat walkers impervious to all but a Manta's firepower. A warhound destroyed by a single small craft, like getting killed by a Leman russ in a single salvo.


DracoLunaris

Pretty sure Leman russes don't pack spaceship grade weapons, which is what they strapped to the bomber. I would also not class them as [small](https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/darkv1.jpg), seeing as they are about the same size as the [warhound's torso](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ed/8d/62/ed8d62200a961d2e8f7188c1a16572de.jpg)


mylittlepurplelady

When I said small craft I meant a fighter/bomber.


Volcanicrage

Its incredibly stupid, but its a damn near perfect mcguffin. It allows for the presence of large populations of genetically modified soldiers in a setting that lacks the scientific infrastructure to support them otherwise, and justifies highly marketable variety in a setting that otherwise tolerates no deviance. It also creates a population limiter that's loose enough to allow for the setting's trademark Forever Wars of attrition, but strict enough to make Astartes rare and special. Most importantly, it is simultaneously so valuable that it justifies virtually limitless sacrifice to protect or recover, but so worthless in the short term that it has no immediate impact on the plot beyond being an objective marker.


Wardog_Razgriz30

It didn't use to be this stupid. Remember, when their was more than one Primarch, Geneseed was alot easier to get. Now, there is only one Primarch and I doubt anyone remembers how harvest Geneseed. So, the system of getting it from Throne knows where, distributing it to thousands of chapters, some of which may no longer exist, and the getting more of it from dead marines is still in place, however stupid it may be.


zachariast

Well they could make a geenseed farm, put the geneseed in slave, when their body produce the other geneseed, harvest them both, you than get two geneseed, it may take like hmm somewhat 10 years i think for the extra geneseed to be produced. I'm not sure from where i read these.


Wardog_Razgriz30

That is pretty heretical and basically what daemonculaba is.


ATL_Dirty_Birds

nah the slaves dont need to be poorly treated. just unfree to leave. having a large population of geneseed producers is how you scale this to insane numbers and end up with tens of millions of marines in a few short centuries.


Wardog_Razgriz30

And what happens to the bodies of these slaves as the tramform to produce Geneseed?


ATL_Dirty_Birds

Well astartes produce it. So they become astartes. Astartes on perm garrison duty whose job it is to mass produce geneseed. They can be kept sedated or do some form of labor or a reserve military force, what have you.


mylittlepurplelady

And you will be considered a heretek for trying to modify the tradditions of creating a Spacemarine. ​ There is a reason why people call the Imperium backwards and inept.


ATL_Dirty_Birds

Not wrong. The codex even allows for it. The scout and neophytes can be unlimited in number. So you could, within the rules, have a few 10 million scouts and 1000 battle brothers. Obviously politics and the like come into play but any reasonable institution would be sure geneseed isnt an issue.


mylittlepurplelady

After the Horus Heresy any institiution would find it very unreasonable. ​ The Inquisition tends to weed out chapters who does sneaky stuff. >The Ordo Astartes is a minor Ordo of the Inquisition. Founded in M32, they oversee the Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes. The strength of the Ordo is currently estimated at 50 Inquisitors.\[1\] > >During the Second Founding, they forcibly disbanded the Wolf Brothers, owing to that Chapter's aberrant gene-seed. The Wolf Brothers were given a choice between honourable death in battle or Inquisitorial execution; however, many of their number escaped entirely, with some members of the Adeptus Terra accusing Primarch Leman Russ of aiding their flight


ATL_Dirty_Birds

Right, in lore this would never fly beyond the templars who have unknown and maybe legion strength numbers in various crusade fleets.


mylittlepurplelady

Which the Inquisition does not like either. ​ The problem is Inquisitors have unlimitted authority but they still need to enforce that authority. They dont have the manpower to actually stop the Black Templars. Instead they just have eyes and ears implanted everywhere to watch whether they do anything heretical or not to present it to the highlords if they need trimming. ​ Everyone else will receive the celestial lion treatment, since there is nothing they can really do unless they are a first founding chapter "looking at you month of shame".


Spines

Also Geneseed was way easier to get because it got produced en masse on Terra. I think the Geneseed was mostly a safety mechanism so that you can restock on longer campaigns.


tyrghast

Progenoid glands may also be harvested from Astartes in a regular basis. Like a cutting from a tree.


mathiastck

Cut wisely


benabart

I might be overdetailed but wasn't geneseed produced on Luna ?


Tack22

You get a geneseed as soon as they grow beyond scouts. The second one is if you want to expand the chapter


DangerousCyclone

No Scouts have Geneseed, what they don’t have is the Black Carapace which is what they need to wear Power Armor. They get that when they graduate Scout School.


Tack22

You- the chapter, take the new progenoid gland from the scout upon maturity, and then the original one is taken upon death. So each marine makes two.


ThatRabidPotato

The Emperor is a moron that deserves what happened


Re-Ky

It really, really is.


AgeofSleepmar

Too bad it can't hit a damn thing on the tabletop and everything now has a invul save...


DerSisch

That is why Bel'akor has now a weapon that ignores Invul saves xD It is simply ridiculous how much stuff has invuln now.


Bazzle-zazzle

I think in some cases, mostly psyker based, it is good and makes sense. But there are too many invuls. So now they need anti invuls, which in a few years will lead to super invuls that ignore anti invuls which then lead to-


hey_im_nobody

It's grade-school playground rules all over again.


Drag0nWarrior

As if Warhammer as a whole ain’t just a massive grade school playground fight on a galactic scale lol


hey_im_nobody

Yup. That's the idea.


Kiwiteepee

Which is why it rules


nyello-2000

It’s trading card power creep and I fucking hate it. This is a consequence of 8th edition being so popular where every edition going forward is going to be just a variant of it until it’s no longer profitable


hey_im_nobody

Whoops, I think I rustled a few jimmies by mistake - was just havin' a bit of fun. Personally, I always felt that it was part of the 'charm' of 40k - everything being over-the-top and ridiculous. But if you're legitimately going to tournaments and getting crushed by cheesy, spammy lists I can imagine it'd be frustrating. My sincere condolences, good sir.


nyello-2000

Oh the lore is fine. It’s the tabletop that’s went to hell. How edition changes used to work was simply fundamental rule changes forcing you to get the new codex. Due to 9th really just being a modded 8th the 8th edition codexes are still usable. The consequence of this is that games workshop made every 9th codex super busted to invalidate the 8th codexes


hey_im_nobody

I've heard/seen similar rumblings around these parts. Again, sorry to hear - especially if you're playing nearly any Xenos faction atm (other than DE).


MuphynToy

I miss when the FW Huron model had the ignore invuln rule and -5 ap. Such a cool melee weapon that saw so little play.


sexy_latias

I mean, why is absolutely EVERYTHING in mechanicus roster rocking an invuln, even most basic infantry! Who thought this was a good idea!?


dycie64

Funnily enough the Skorpius Disintegrator (hovercraft tank) and it's transport equivalent don't. The artillery gunboat doesn't have one but the basic troops have a 6++


The_Knife_Pie

Because we have abandoned the weaknesses of flesh for the strength of steel. Glory to the Omnissiah, meatbags


impfletcher

Well it used to be a feel no pain 6+, but for some reason in 8e they decided to change it to an invuln


dreadassassin616

It was because of the way 40k damage doesn't carry over. In Age of Sigmar, if you fail 5 saves for attacks from damage 2 weapons, you take 10 wounds on the unit, regardless of the wounds characteristic of the unit. Because of this if the unit has a feel-no-pain, ward, etc, you can roll 10 dice; it's relatively quick and easy. Because 40k damage doesn't carry over, it's more arduous. Prior to the 9th edition Death Guard book, if say, a unit of plague marines failed 5 saves for attacks from damage 2 weapons, you would have to roll 2 fnp rolls individually for each marine to survive; it takes longer, but you would loose 5 (1 wound models at the time) maximum. Giving a unit an invuln rather than a fnp speeds up the game considerably.


impfletcher

Yet they still gave stuff like dark eldar and ulthwe eldar the feel no pain, not saying speed isn't a good reason to change it to am invuln just they weren't consistent at changing them away from fnp


didido_two

Cause of this everything makes MW now. Railgun rework will proably do consitant MW too. When you look at already reworked Railguns (FW) they do MW additional to dmg on every hit.


SandiegoJack

From what we saw in I think the imperial armor compendium, it seems likely that railguns will start doing mortal wounds.


TheLordCommissar

Sir Isaac Newton is indeed the deadliest son of a bitch in space


Hazzamo

A: This, recruits, is a 20-kilo ferrous slug. Feel the weight. Every five seconds, the main gun of an Everest-class dreadnought accelerates 1 to 1.3 percent of light speed. It impacts with the force of a 38-kiloton bomb. That is three times the yield of the city buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth. That means Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son-of-a-bitch in space. Now! Serviceman Burnside! What is Newton's First Law? B: Sir! A object in motion stays in motion, sir! A: No credit for partial answers, maggot! B: Sir! Unless acted on by an outside force, sir! A: Damn straight! I dare to assume you ignorant jackasses know that space is empty. Once you fire a hunk of metal, it keeps going 'til it hits something. That can be a ship, or the planet behind that ship. It might go off into deep space and hit somebody else in ten thousand years. If you pull the trigger on this, you're ruining someone's day somewhere and sometime. That is why you check your damn targets! That is why you wait for the computer to give you a damn firing solution! That is why, Serviceman Chung, we do not "eyeball it!" This is a weapon of mass destruction. You are not a cowboy shooting from the hip. B: Sir, yes sir!


Chronic_Discomfort

Classic


Worfs-forehead

Mass effect always made me laugh for putting that quote in the script ahhahaha


drip_dingus

So wait, I know there is some great lore about inspecting a Leman Russ hit by a Railgun splattering the crew all over the walls while only leaving a pin hole in the armour, but is there something more specific about a similar effect for power armor? Because I mean, I assume all S10 guns would have a pretty gnarly effect on any meat they hit. Maybe a lascannon would just punch a clean, but crispy, hole leaving the bits intact, but idk.


garaks_tailor

20 yards of superhuman tartar and a mostly empty suit. Maybe a head or foot or hand catches just right and is left behind.


useles-converter-bot

20 yards is 58.43 RTX 3090 graphics cards lined up.


garaks_tailor

Best bot


converter-bot

20 yards is 18.29 meters


suicidalsyd1

and a burning tyre rolling off into the distance


garaks_tailor

There is always a burning wheel


converter-bot

20 yards is 18.29 meters


dekacube

That's not how physics work.


Thunderbird_Anthares

actually that is exactly how physics work anything semi-solid being hit in those conditions is considered with fluid dynamics, and with these velocities you can pretty much equate it with water and it wont really make a practical difference


dekacube

why would it leave the suit intact, and why would all the fluid leave the suit? any impact thats clean in and clean out, isnt going to suck all the meat out. Not disagreeing their would be just soup inside the suit, but its not all going to exit out the back.


Thunderbird_Anthares

it would have a very clean more or less projectile shaped hole in the front... and a ragged giant hole out the back imagine blowing out a can of beer with a .50BMG... and the marine is the cheap beer


dekacube

I'd imagine at railgun velocities, the guy would just fucking explode. Like this but increase the energy transfer by a factor of 50. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHSRIfa2QG4qbT8MVCZJ39vDzACAELRkGwMw&usqp=CAU


Thunderbird_Anthares

yeah... its really difficult to compare the ridiculously destructive effect to people something can relate to though


liege_paradox

Let me try to explain it. If you tap the side of a glass, the water inside will make waves. The water still feels all of that force. Now imagine the water is a space marine, and the glass is their suit, and instead of tapping, you’re shooting it with a gun. At these forces, the shockwave alone will liquify the marine (comparable with water, as u/thunderbird_anthares stated), and the marine becomes a nice soup, that either leaks out the hole, or sloshes inside the undamaged suit, making ripples. Now that all the organs are mixed up, the gene-seed is unrecoverable.


dekacube

Yes. sloshes inside is fine, Im taking issue with an intact standing suit and man soup spread out 20 yards behind it.


useles-converter-bot

20 yards is the length of about 16.78 'Ford F-150 Custom Fit Front FloorLiners' lined up next to each other.


converter-bot

20 yards is 18.29 meters


Kat-but-SFW

As it passes through, it will generate a shock wave in the space marine, turning him to go and pushing all his goo away to spray out finger joints and leaving a vacuum behind it. Some goo picks up energy from the slug and moves backwards, exiting the power armour behind the slug. Then the vacuum collapses, and when the space marine goo slams together it sends another shockwave out that pushes space marine goo out both holes with extreme force. So it would spread out a lot in front of the marine as well.


liege_paradox

Oh, that’s your problem…I agree, that would probably require warp shenanigans, or a large hole in the back of the suit (and 20 yards is unlikely).


useles-converter-bot

20 yards is the length of 144.0 'Bug Bite Thing Suction Tool - Poison Remover For Bug Bites's stacked on top of each other.


converter-bot

20 yards is 18.29 meters


Terkmc

I think part of it is that, as you said, lascannon and most energy weapon would just punch a hole through marines while explosive weapons just takes out flesh chunks and blow up on the surface of the marine, while the sheer kinetic energy of a railgun would turn the inside of anything they hit into pulp (think of how a 50 cal would eviscarate a human body even if its not explosive, and scale it up alot). The other part is just how ubiquitous it is for the Tau, they arm basically everything from a sniper drone to their tank to their battlesuit up to even their spacecraft with railguns, so while other race S10 guns would also delete the marine from existence, they don't encounter them as much in a given battlefield as the % of railgun they encounter for any Tau battlefield.


BoltgunOnHisHip

Meanwhile, Admech over here like: WHAT IF WE JUST MADE EVERYTHING OUT OF RADIATION?! 8D


The_Knife_Pie

Radiation is the ultimate weapon for the admech, it purges the flesh while leaving steel (mostly) unaffected!


lekiu

im pretty sure a lascannon beam hitting flesh would cause a steam explosion instead of a cauterized hole.


8Ball325

The 8e Tau codex says that Tau railguns were so powerful, the sheer kinetic force of the projectile would send it straught through a Leman Russ and then suck out the crew


drip_dingus

Yeah, there is plenty of lore about railguns hitting tanks going back much earlier, at least as far back as the FW Imperial Armor books. I just never saw anything about hitting space Marines. There have been a lot of guessing about hydrostatic shock in this thread, but no 40k citations. I just want to read a brutal grimdark lore lol


XanderTuron

That sounds a lot like one of the BS myths about what HEAT weapons do.


CallDownTheSun

lmfao on the tabletop it's a limp penis


Serge-Fabrizio

They even kinda look like dicks...


Shanhaevel

I get that railguns are powerful, but wouldn't any other powerful weapon, ie a bolter with AP ammo, destroy the glands with a well placed shot too? I swear, this lore sometimes, sigh...


impfletcher

The point is railguns don't need a well placed shot


Shanhaevel

How so? Do they obliterate the entire marine? I'm honestly asking, cause, far as I know, a railgun uses magnetic force to propel a solid slug at ridiculous speeds, wouldn't it just rip through a marine where it hits and move on? That was an issue with 7,62 ammo in assault rifles, for example. They'd just go clean through a target, leaving a clean exit wound, easy to heal, so it wasn't doing great with stopping enemy combatants from fighting. At least so I heard, not gonna say I'm an expert on this.


impfletcher

Hydrostatic shock, basically the railgun is so powerful it turns the marine into soup while only leaving a hole either side of the armour


Shanhaevel

Bit of a far reach I think, judging by its definition, hydrostatic shock doesn't necessarily cause such an effect, but hell it's the far, grimdark future, everything's possible I guess, not gonna argue about a made up universe. Was just curious why'd it be destroying the glands and other weapons wouldn't. In the end, WH lore is like two kids arguing in a make believe fight. "My railgun vaporise you!" "No, I have an invulnerable save!" "Oh yeah? Well, this is a relic railgun that ignores invulnerable saves!" "Oh yeah? Well, on a roll of 4+ I ignore the wound anyway!" And so on, and so forth...


impfletcher

Oh yeah none of the lore makes any sense if you try to apply real world logic to it


Shanhaevel

Amen, amen...


Grievious_Syndicate

Hey, it=s that lego bionicle writing?


[deleted]

But… but… T’au can’t melee!


No_Research4416

Farsight: -Anime laughter-


pierresito

"KONO FARSIGHT DA!"


manticore124

"Parry this you filthy Gue'ron'sha"


BrilliantConfluence

The Damocles Gulf Crusade would have ended in complete Tau genocide were it not for the threat of Hive Fleet Behemoth


Elkind_rogue

40k is basically "X would have destroyed Y, were it not Z"


Thunderbird_Anthares

this is false and you know it


sexy_latias

And?


Schrodinger1997

Not really from the book (blades of damocles) the imperium only got to 1 sept world and completely bogged down basically immediately and took heavy losses even with space marines from 3 chapters (also farsight dunking on the ultra marines is awesome) so they may have taken a few sept worlds but the imperium probably wouldn't send to much more reinforcement as it was seen as a minor crusade in a fringe area and sending enough forces to crush the tau would have left them weak to other enemies like chaos or orks (also it goes the same with a lot of other factions the imperium could wipe out the dark elder but it would cost to much meanwhile if the orks ever unified they could literally kill everyone)


The_Knife_Pie

The damocles “crusade” is the smallest crusade in Imperial history, forced to disengage early because of incoming hive fleet and all the while it still fucked up multiple Tau planets and forced them to entirely rethink their expansion. The damocles “crusade” wouldn’t have been able to kill them, but that’s because it was barely a crusade.


Sky3d

"They would have been owned by the crusade were it not for those meddling tyranids!" "Hah, we weren't even trying lmao! Not a real crusade lol"


The_Knife_Pie

I never made the original argument incase you’re lacking in reading comprehension. I even in my comment say the forces of the damocles crusade were not sufficient to wipe out the tau. The reason just isn’t because the Tau are so op and unstoppable or the imperium so weak, it’s cause the “crusade” is so ridiculously small compared to every single other crusade it doesn’t deserve the title


Sky3d

I know you didn't. I'm still laughing at your own argument regarding the Imperium not trying. "The tau weren't wiped by the Damocles Crusade because it wasn't a crusade, reeee" Also, manners. They're not only meant to be used at the table. ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ


HappyTheDisaster

They can’t and they are cowards for it.


Wardog_Razgriz30

Pretty based of the Tau.


Immediate_Energy_711

I am trying to make an imperialism joke right now and nothing good is coming to mind.


MfGs5000

Just say they can't melee it always works


Alexz7777

At this point, it's not clear to me if the Marines are the best warriors or just glorified bitches. A regular space marine is supposed to equal more than 100 guardmen, tactical geniuses who can fight Eldar who literally see the future, with hundreds of years of experience. Them they are constantly owned by tau, who live about 30 years, with strength, speed and reaction little lower than regular humans, but with the equivalent equipment of a skitarii, but technologically less advanced than Ad Mec. At least in the lore, Tau has bigger chances to win against Marines than Eldars, somehow.


RentElDoor

I am pretty sure Space Marines are designed to drop directly on a target and kill everyone on it in a short but violent firefight, because in prolonged combat they will suffer losses they cannot afford. Meaning that most chapters in the game are stupid and use tactics that activly worsen the Imperiums situation by throwing away much needed ressources. Which is fitting for the setting.


pugesh

You should bear in mind that the imperial military machine simply wasn’t designed for the horrors the galaxy has to offer. They were initially designed to *skullfuck* techno-barbarians, then reunite humanity under one banner. Individual Space marines are absolutely capable of wrecking a few companies of IG (especially primaris marines), but it gets more difficult when you put them up against more advanced threats. Many (though absolutely not the majority of) orks are capable of growing to be the size of space marine, if not bigger. Ogryns are definitely stronger than space marines, tyranids... yeah, the eldar have massive advantages of their own, necrons can get revived, demons and CSM are just metal as fuck and even the tau have a pretty big technological advantage. All of these things are not necessarily situations a space marine is guaranteed to engage, especially when given the sheer variety of enemies an average astartes chapter faces every few times.


Kamenev_Drang

An individual SM could no more deal with a company of Guardsmen than he could deal with the same number of Orks. It is also worth noting that the Imperial Military isn't primarily SM. It's Imperial Guard.


pugesh

By imperial military, I was specifically referring to *every single* armed branch of the imperium, from the golden bois, all the way to your lowliest militiaman. As for your first point, orks have a tendency of being much better fighters than regular guardsmen, at least the ones that happen to be a little bigger. Space marines would have much more trouble slashing their way through a horde of orks than they would through the same number of humans


Kamenev_Drang

On tabletop, where you've got an engagement range of 25 yards, sure. In universe, where you can deliver las fire out to 300 yards, Orks are significantly less dangerous. Brute strength < accurate fire


pugesh

In that case, it’s much more situation than anything. If you’re in territory with a lot of concealment and cover, such as urban ruins and forests/jungles, the space marine has a much better chance of absolutely annihilating the guardsmen. If it’s completely open, it would take a little more luck, but it wouldn’t be impossible


Kamenev_Drang

How precisely do you think a Space Marine is going to annihalate 100+ professional soldiers before one of them puts an AT grenade/missile into him?


pugesh

Aside from the fact that you’re getting needlessly aggressive, we’re talking about theoreticals here. Fucking crazy things have happened in 40k and space marines are among these things. Perhaps the space marine is of the raven guard and has been picking off the regiment one by one, day after day, or maybe the space marine has been making use of explosives to demoralize the guardsmen. Maybe he’s a flesh tearer and the guardsmen just run on sight, short of getting absolutely eviscerated, or maybe the space marine is an imperial fist in centurion armor. All of these things could theoretically happen for one reason or another and I’m sure some already have. Space marines are exceptionally good at what they do and they are capable of fighting it out regardless of how many enemies they’re up against


PixelBrother

They will be too busy shitting their pants from transhuman dread as the 8 foot walking tank sprints faster than they can track with their weapons.


Kamenev_Drang

>sprints faster than they can track with their weapons. bahaha ok I see we're at Brothers of the Snake levels of silly here, I'm out.


PixelBrother

Sir this is 40k. Everything is silly, or did you miss the memo? Seriously though, I answered your question and you get all shitty? Ok then


ppmi1

>You should bear in mind that the imperial military machine simply wasn’t designed for the horrors the galaxy has to offer They are literally designed for EXACTLY that, like were did you even pull that from? >They were initially designed to skullfuck techno-barbarians, then reunite humanity under one banner. Again NO, thoose were the thunder warriors or even the Custodes, the Astartes were designed to overkill anyything the galaxy had to offer(there were more than a few issues during development)and to blitz the galaxy and the chapter sistem and modern tactics were designed by Guilliman for war against the horrors of space. >orks are capable of growing to be the size of space marine, if not bigger. Thats why they have heavy weapons, because the space marines dont expect to defeat anything they encounter in glorious mele combat or by shooting it with a bolter because again they were designed to fight wars against anything the galaxy can throw at them. I am not deniying that space marines should defeateable, but saying they werent designed for fighting other things in the galaxy is bolocks hell it is even in their name **Space** Marines


pugesh

By imperial military machine, I was not referring to the space marines specifically. I was referencing every military unit the imperium has to offer. As for your point about orks, yeah I’ll give you that one. However, it should be said that some space marine chapters absolutely favor melee combat over ranged, especially given the fact that not every marine has heavy weapons.


Auto314

You’re really underestimating how strong the IG and SM are. The IG is made up of the best of the best a planet has to offer, not some random conscripts. They’d absolutely ruin any modern military man-for-man and, considering imperial tech, they’re pretty much the best the imperium could hope to have as an army. The SM on the other hand are ludicrous. They were not designed to skullfuck technobarbarians, they were designed to purge any and all xenos from the galaxy. I honestly doubt that a single railgun shot could do much to SM armour, but I’m sure a lucky/exceptionally well-placed one, or many shots in quick succession could fuck a SM up. However, that’s pretty irrelevant. You have to *hit* a SM first. A 10ft behemoth charging at you at 30kmh firing an automatic grenade launcher with no recoil at pinpoint accuracy, with reflexes faster than you can imagine, with hundreds of years of combat experience and no fear, doubt or mercy whatsoever. You will get fucked up, hard, railgun, or whatever dumb Tau shit you have.


Kamenev_Drang

It's almost like the whole 'better than hundred men' thing is stupid.


SandiegoJack

Depends on how you are measuring success and metrics.


DeLoxley

I mean I know this was written to make the Tau seem a threat but 'Kills battle brothers upon impact (Like any weapon should)', just makes it sound like the marines are whiny kids 'NUH UH Your weapons arent MEANT TO break our SUPER TITANOSTEEL ARMOUR thats CHEATING' And they have the nerve to talk about losing the necksticles when there's melta, gauss, radium, shokktattacks...


DangerousCyclone

It was a bigger deal before Primaris. Back then SM were a dying breed, the secrets to making Geneseed and most of their technology were lost. No one knew how to make Terminator Armor, and often they would repair it by taking bits from other broken sets of armor. They kept trying to nonetheless, but the newer Geneseed was prone to mutations and degeneration, it was clear that they can’t keep it up. Essentially, destroyed Geneseed wasn’t going to be replaced, same with destroyed Armor or Land Raiders, so it was truly a loss. Then Primaris came a long and Cawl essentially said “Nah here’s some legions of super space marines with new hover tanks”.


DeLoxley

I mean I get that but my point is the Progenoids are positioned in incredibly vulnerable locations, in a universe of comically destructive weaponry, but it's the railgun they feel is worth hating and not the Gauss Destroyer, which atomises even the holy relics that are terminator armour? Getting mad that the Xenos you're trying to massacre fight back and kill your guys? Imagine that at the table top 'How dare your foul Xenos actually kill an emperor's chosen? You must be using some foul underhanded bs', but it's in actual lore


fungruntjb

Someone post the small Imperial Crusade against the tau video


SatanVapesOn666W

https://youtu.be/7R66Rqe_hrI This one?


TFS_Sierra

This is my favorite format for history videos


Minticus-Maximus

It is however hilariously inaccurate. In the actual lore of the Crusade, the Imperium lost *badly.* From the first world of Syl'kell, which only had 7 million Tau, a tiny amount, they took massive fleet losses in space, greatly reducing the fleet's effectivenss going forward. This continued for a bit until they got to the first major world of Dal'yth. After tons of losses, the Fleet managed to make planetfall... and never much further, Tau stealth suits and flying units bogging them down so much the Space Marines and Titans couldn't get anywhere, too easy a target (the guard actually did very well). By this point the forces where so weak they needed reinforcements, and that was denyed because of the Hive Fleet, leading to a full retreat Basically the Imperium got fucked up


Delmarquis38

So you told me... They shot them into the balls ?


ImaAs

> glands that are used to make more space marines Ffs, are teh ork boiz?


MasterBlaster10000

Would that make the Tau responsible for the sudden increase in Primaris Space Marines?


amisia-insomnia

The virgin space marine vs tau the Chad full jet bike custodes army vs tau


catstroker69

I feel like custodies are just space marines but with double the autism.


amisia-insomnia

I think it’s half sisters of battle and other ecclesiastical forces are double


ThriceDamnedSandwich

Good thing we can just, like, create more Gene-seed. Just imagine being a fool who adheres to a strict codex standard.


Atreides-42

Friendly reminder that railguns one-hit kill space marines and that there are most likely hundreds of times more hammerhead tanks in the galaxy than space marines. But sure, *tau* are the inconsequentially tiny and fragile faction.


The_Knife_Pie

And there’s still probably a few thousand guardsman, and few hundred baneblades per hammerhead tank. SM are supposed to be isolated super spec ops. Not to mention the fact that pure admech armies are the near technological equal of Tau, while being a few hundred times the size of their empire


VelphiDrow

You think there are *BILLIONS* of hammerheads?


ToDieOrNotToLive

Fuckin' unorky tau!


pyro_marine_life

The first letter of that tau word looking pretty sus


thesh0e92

As a tau fan this makes me smile.


Beardedwonder9

Cawl has this shit under control


CorruptedEither

Heretic.


Therascalrumpus

Wow, it destroys space marine bodies completely, like necrons a lot of the time, larger tyranid stuff iirc, and strong enough explosives and artillery, like a d-cannon! Or probably a well placed Melta grenade. Why are the tau a threat because of this? I guess it does instantly kill them and ruin the bodies but Tbf most large weapons do.


NeonSRK

I don't hate to be a Debbie Downer but I feel like if that's the criteria for "roundly hating" a weapon, the Astartes probably roundly hate pretty much every heavy or energy based weapon their opponents use


Ingenium371

What's stopping the Nekronz from adopting this technology? I mean they are the masters of science.


Themaster6869

Tau would need to learn how to shoot their guns first


LylDuke

Oh god emperor it gelds spacemarines!