Both my daughters worked in the food services industry when they were in highschool, and hated it. Wages were terrible, schedules seemingly made by sadists, demands to do unpaid work. I think the pandemic is a comeuppance for an employee-unfriendly industry.


This. It's the industrie's reckoning and long-overdue


One thing consumers probably don't get it prices will soar. For rich countries Canadians eat out most in the world. Americans are 2nd. Canadians eat out 4* a week. Americans 3.6 a week France, Italy about 2 Germany, Ireland and the UK about 1.5 When our industry changes expect prices to change and average person to eat out less. Reddit always wants things to change but never wants the tradeoff. The tradeoff is inflation and less hospitality Jobs overall.


Please raise price and get rid of tipping... I want to know how much my evening will cost before i leave


I’m a Canadian who went to the UK for two weeks of work. Went to a pub and ordered some beers for the crew. I gave a normal Canadian tip and the bartender threw the money back at me saying “I don’t need your charity, we don’t tip here. If you want to give me more money buy more alcohol.” This is the day I realized most of the world doesn’t have bs tipping.


I was in ireland and it felt so good to look at the menu see 5€ for a pint, leave a 5€ note on the bar, and walk off with my beer.... Tax and service included in the price shown. What a novel fucking idea....


Would love for this to transfer to retail stores too, is it that hard to include any tax/ eco fees and all that on the shelf tag? Because it would be convenient as fuck


It's not hard at all, any retailer could implement it at a moment's notice. The problem is that the power drill you wanted for $99.99 is suddenly not as exciting at $112.99. As stupid as this sounds it does make a massive difference in sales quantity.


It still results in consumers paying the same price though. If you have to trick your customers to increase your sales, I don't really have any sympathy for you. We need more consumer protection in this country.


Agreed, but that how the whole retail works. Big chains spend millions figuring out how to trick you out of a few more dollars.


the price to the end consumer is the same, its just that consumers aren't misled and stores cant' compete on fictional prices. It's a win all the way around. Remember when you used to have to book plane tickets on fictional prices because they doubled or tripled with the fees, and then the government required them to advertise the actual prices? I much prefer seeing the actual prices.


On this same topic I want to see taxes included in the sticker price.


Come on feds. Someone make this an election promise


I knew a guy who worked for a company in Labrador some years ago, and the people there demanded taxes be included in the sticker price. Even big telcoms like Rogers would have their people tell Labradorites the price with taxes on the sticker. Otherwise they'd call 'em liars and be a pain to the company. The rest of Canada should follow suit. Stay strong Labrador.


The reason they didn't do this is because the GST was so controversial when it first came out and was to be bundled into the price. The gov't (Mulroney IIRC) was accused of trying to "hide" the tax so they changed it to not be bundled.


I see it the opposite way of companies trying to hide the true price of their goods by not including it. Especially big ticket items like TVs and Cars.


Legally, companies must list the before tax price and that was because of the uproar when the GST was first enacted.


What you're going to get is raising the price and keep tipping.


Can’t wait to get screamed at by guests because of prices going up 👍🏻


That's just not true, the prices will reflect the consumer's ability and desire to pay. Regardless of employee wages prices have gone up exponentially faster than the average rate of inflation. If the European fast food/restaurant industry can cope and provide an equally priced meal despite paying their employees a living wage, 4 weeks paid vacation, and actual overtime. So can we. The owner class will abuse employees and the labour market whenever possible for their own profit. If there is nothing stopping you from demanding everything from a minimum wage employee, then you'll extract every ounce of labor possible. This labor shortage is a strict result of years and years of neglect and care towards the working class population.


Won't someone please think of the poor franchise owners!?


That's not how exploitation works!


It's a little more complicated; prices are generately set to maximise profit, not revenue. So when labour (or any other) costs rise, it usually makes sense to raise prices part of the difference to make a higher profit margin on a lower volume of busines. So higher wages will solve the problem, by drawing in more workers and reducing the demand for labour.


Prices for eating out are already sky high. I probably eat out about 1/20 the amount I did pre pandemic and don't miss it at all. I learned to use an instant pot and can make meals way cheaper and healthier. Bye bye restaurants.


Those things are great! Excellent way to class up a meal without making a huge mess. Also great that you could buy really tough cheap cuts of meat and cook them in a very reasonable amount of time for a good meal.




Easily the worst owners of any industry too in my opinion. Franchises are designed to be hands-off and owners treat them that way. They come in to raid the register, scream at employees, and speed off in an expensive car. Underpaying employees as much as possible, and in the non-fast-food arena, relying on customers to pay tips to make up the difference (then trying to grab a house share of that, too).


A completely abusive industry. One of my first jobs when I was a bookkeeper was for a small restaurant, and the way they treated their staff, mainly kids and single moms, was atrocious. I won't say every restaurant is horrible, but a lot of them are, and it's an industry in need of some serious cleaning house.


As bookkeeper, you got to see the numbers. Was the place grossly profitable? Could they have doubled wages?


They were next door to a bar, so they did okay. In the end their cook quit and that was pretty much it. Staff turnover was pretty high. It's why I always tell anyone planning on opening a restaurant to simply borrow $100k, take it home and flush it down the toilet. You'll end up in the hole but at least it didn't take you two years and much misery to get there.


I agree entirely, but there's still this absurd "cult of the small business owner" in political discourse. Like sure some are okay of course, but small business owners can be every bit as exploitative and shitty as any large company, oftentimes more so. I don't understand why independent restaurants or stores get a pass for their exploitation just because they aren't walmart.


Can confirm. A couple I used to work for would take our tips at the end of the night. Before and after min wage increase. Ironically, they both used to work in the bar industry relying on tips.




Wait staff "tip out" the cooks. Generally this means the cooks get a small percentage of the waiters tips, which many waiters bitch about constantly. Even at shitty restaurants with low priced food, waiters can make more than cooks. At decent restaurants with moderately priced meals, the shittiest waiter can easily make more than the best and most experienced cook on average. At higher priced restaurants, it's a matter of luck, knowing someone, and being attractive to get a job as a waiter. And the cooks will have no chance in hell of getting paid as well.




I've never once in my life gone anywhere based on what kind of service I'd get. Always how the food will be.


small businesses are the worst in tax doging and shady business & labour practices.But then again, they don't have the 'bailout leverage' that big businesses do. All businesses suck (if you're not a full on capitalist), they're behaving the way they do for the most optimal business payoff.


They’re the worst to work for because they want to control EVERYTHING. Then they get mad at you for not doing the things they won’t let you do.


Small owners have always been much worse in my experience, because they don't have a board of investors to answer to in most cases.


Why would investors care about workers rights?


No the labour laws are tilted to anyone offering a job to exploit the hell out of the new hire, not just in restaurants It's been too long since I worked for a Canadian company but it was like 1 year before you ever have to give a person vacation or sick days and places like WalMart hiring for only 30 hours a week so benefits didn't have to be paid... I could be out of the loop, it's been awhile since Ive cared what an employer here offered




That's the worst thing about tipping IMO. Can agree or disagree with it, but if its here, I like the fact that many places do some sort of tip pooling to make sure support staff (bussers, hosts, etc) and BOH get a share. But.. many places split a share of it to management. Management who is salaried lol.


It may seem unfair, but good managers run food, help bus tables, seat tables, etc. Management =/= owners. Managers are often the lowest paid per hour employees in the building (with servers being highest paid). Managers getting some sort of compensation doesn't seem unreasonable to me when a server is STILL making far more per hour.


Even corporate run restaurants were crap. You’d find petty tyrants in charge of scheduling. But I’d hate to see petty tyrant plus asshole owner. A lot of turnover is because it’s first job. The rest is all business culture.


Couldn't agree more, my mom worked as a cook and get paid very little, after awhile they would ask her to do more than just cooking. More disgusting was they stole her tips.


I worked in foodservice, supervising mainly teenagers. The number of adult customers who screamed at these kids was appalling. Most of the time it wasn't even for anything the kids did, but even if that were the case, there was absolutely no need for it. It was a common occurrence where I had to step in and make them stop. It was brutal. The structured work is great for teenagers, it's something that's simple and easy to learn, in some aspects they're great first jobs. But honestly knowing what I know I'd never recommend customer service to anyone.


On the other hand I recommend it to everyone because if you have worked the other end you are less likely to end up a self entitled Karen.


So true, that's a good point. I've become a Karen to the Karen's, I white girl scold customers I see that mistreats anyone working in customer service, I give zero fucks about how trashy it looks when I do it. I've for sure got hangups about how I was treated when I did the job, I can't help it sometimes. Like, listen lady, this 15 year old didn't short your fries on purpose, it's fucking busy, so be nice and just ask them to fix it without making a scene and / or belittling them


That's the biggest thing. We know mistakes will happen. You just have to ask and we can usually fix it. But come yell at me and I'm going to make this process as painful as I can.


My sister tried working at Subway for a bit as a summer job years ago and absolutely hated it in the end. The manager for her store gave all the hours out to immigrant/foreign workers first because they were cheaper to employ (there's some wage subsidy for foreign workers) despite them being less reliable and having poorer communication skills.


I got hired at a KFC in Vancouver when I was younger. The manager sent me back to work alongside the other employees and they were instructed to teach me the ropes. Well, they were all filipino and refused to speak English, instead giving me shady eyes as they spoke in their language amongst themselves. I made a sincere effort to engage them, but received no traction. I quit after an hour, realizing I was wasting my time.


That’s sad. I had no idea there was a wage subsidy responsible for the prevalence of immigrants working these positions.


I get the desire to keep costs down... but as a customer I hate having to repeat my order 4 times to the staff because there is language barrier in effect. I also feel like all this does is hold up the line behind me when I'm trying to place my order. And that has to increase everyone else's frustrations too. There are some fast food places here where I refuse to go to because it's mostly foreign workers there and the level of spoken English would charitably be described as sub-par. I don't dare try using the app and do pickup because then I'm worried that it's wrong and I won't be there to catch the mistake. (And often going back is more of a pain than it's worth.)


I'm pretty sure Subway only exists as an immigration tool now. Tim Horton's isn't far behind.


I would say that most small businesses, the owners have no idea how to treat employees properly. They are self-taught Mom & Pop style entrepreneurs. The best summer job I had, management-wise, was at Canada's Wonderland. It was a corporation, and they had an HR department. For what it was, I felt that I was always treated fairly. Some of the supervisors in my department, were hotel & restaurant management students, so there was some professionalism going on most of the time. The worst one was a lady who ran a coffee shop. She liked it that her teen employee was bossing me around, calling her "my little H\*tler" She had no issues with making it known who was her favourite employees, so I had no plans to stick around.


My buddy works in the service industry and he absolutely kills it. Many nights he takes 300$ cash, tips, in his pocket, no tax, no problem. He's capable of so much more, but he loves the industry lifestyle. Little bit of a party animal.


That is the thing, while it's trendy to push for better conditions on Reddit right now, I know teachers and agriculture specialist that made more money with less worked hours being waiters than working their main career. Not to say that McDo and Tim are golden employers, but the idea that front staff in restaurants and bar are the poor child of that service industry is laughable. And I know that some a-bit-above average restaurants are hiring dish washer for 21$/h...while it's certainly not high middle class income, it's certainly well paid for a job you can learn in a day.


You have to wonder how many of those really shitty places they had to work in before getting into the really nice position they are in now. They didn't just get there in 1 day. I'm sure they'd also like to see the bottom of the barrel brought up to better standards.


“Part-time (15-20 hours/week) MUST have open availability!!” -every restaurant job posting ever.


Every job posting for similar industries have this and much,much more. I guess it’s to cover there ass in the event your made to do more.


Gee it's almost like people are sick of being exploited...


I’ll save y’all the details but I cooked for 20 years and got out right before the pandemic. When the restaurants got shut down ( I have no shame in saying this ) I was sad for the employees but so so so so so happy that all the shady shitty owners were gonna get theirs. And they did. It’s the best. Now the industry should ( they won’t ) rebuild in a sane sustainable way. But alas... it will never happen.


Same. I was a baker for 10 years before covid. Always had to fight for any raise and worked ridiculous hours. One of the places I worked shut down and it made me smile. I can’t imagine the industry will ever change, but I’m so happy that I could retrain this past year and gtfo


I’ll tell ya, I was livid when I found out the housekeepers were making more than I was and I was creating recipes, waking at 4am to get to work for 5, using my skills etc… meanwhile anyone can be a housekeeper, ya know. Now we make the same wage… rip


To be fair you never had to deal with jizz stains and bloody sheets . It's more hazard pay than skill pay.


Left the industry in 2017 after being in it since 2004. All I could do was laugh when all the shitty owners shut their doors during the pandemic. It was glorious.


We can’t even get reliable garbage pick up in our town because of a labour shortage, but really it’s that they are only paying $17.25/hr for a job no one wants to do.


It's frustrating that the media have adopted the framing implicit in the term "labour shortage" when what they're actually talking about is a "wage shortage".


Inflation too….. now taxes have to raise to pay your public employees. Then prices of everything jump up. Restaurants fail as nobody can afford them ($90 for lunch is getting wild, people respond by skipping alcohol or appetizers, further reducing margins) Whole thing is collapsing slowly from covid


Forget public employs (although the RCMP just won an insane pay increase). The big issue is the absurd rental and housing markets. They’re driving wage demands in the big cities, which is pushing inflation elsewhere, which makes those jobs even less attractive. Rid speculation from the property market (decommodify housing), and then eat and drink to your heart’s content.


Grocery prices have all gone up a dollar or two in the last month.


That's how it always has been, and will continue to be, while profit remains at the forefront of the media's goals (it seems worth nothing that the people that do the funding are entirely from the upper echelons of society... they aren't getting that money from donating individuals). Gotta fuel a meaningless class war to keep the people preoccupied *somehow*.


the squeeze is on and won't stop until big corporations accept lower profits. if you increase wages and keep the same profit levels, you're increasing prices. with increased wages and increased prices, you're in the same spot you were before.


The media largely push the agenda of billionaires and millionaires


Yeah the fact that no one wants to talk about how wages are part of the labour market is astonishing. It is 100% fine if businesses go bust because they can't afford the employees they need; their job is to generate revenue to cover these expenses--if they can't do that, they are not good businesses.


>We can’t even get reliable garbage pick up in our town because of a labour shortage, but really it’s that they are only paying $17.25/hr for a job no one wants to do. What town are you mentioning? Has the service been privatized?


Sounds like Comox Valley BC to me 19th street had their recycling out for like 2 weeks because it didnt get picked up


Yup, immediately thought of CV.


You guys control ours up in CR too, for some strange reason. I'm thankful for garbage handlers, but damn it if isn't funky Hopefully they'll get some better pay, and some more people joining


Yea it’s CV


Garbage truck drivers here start at almost 30 an hour. Trucks pick up the garbage so it's not labour intense from what I can see. But wow $17 lol




If you pay they will play.


I went to a local bar last night with my sister. There was only one server, and she wasn't old enough to serve alcohol. When the owner came by with our drinks he literally told us that he's hiring staff if we were interested. I give the place 2 months.


After 20 years in kitchens I quit to get into customer service. There is no money, the schedules suck, the work is grueling, there is no job security, there are next to no perks and most of your co-workers are addicted to something and usually on it at work. ​ Good times.


Kinda surprised it took 20 years to figure that one out.


the fuck asked you?


This man kitchens.


Hahah yep


Aye chef.


Front of house isn't so bad. I made quite a bit of money bartending. By the hour, sometimes it was obscene money. But this was before the NDP in my province (Alberta) raised minimum wages for servers and bartenders. Thst was a really stupid move because now it massively cuts into tips, and raises overall prices for food and drinks. So in their quest to raise wages, they actually achieved the opposite.


The food industry is the one job I am glad that I never worked in. All of my friends who did were miserable.


Yeah, do not complain that you cannot fill jobs when you are not willing to pay what your potential workers want.


> "I can't find dishwashers," he said. "Especially for guys in that position, why would they come back when they're paid to sit at home?" What a shitty attitude. Fucking pay people enough to make it worth their time. If you're paying so low that people would rather be unemployed than work for you, your job is the problem, not the unemployment.


That industry is horrible. Poor working conditions, low pay, high stress, low morale, high turnover, dickhead owners...what more could one ask for?!


I don't know who you think is going to serve your dinners for $15/hr when houses cost $700,000 and rents are over $2000/mo. Someone somewhere is really bad at math.


There is no labour shortage there's just a large number of greedy people who think running a business means they are entitled to having people work for next to nothing. If you can't find people to wash your dishes, either pay them a living wage or wash them yourself.






I think its incorrect to paint all restaurants with this brush. My dad owns a pub that's been in business since the 70's, and he has four servers that have been working there for more than 30 years, and several that have been there over a decade. He offers health/dental benefits and, after tips, it would be rare for servers to make less than $30/hour. I worked there through highschool doing dishes, and it obviously sucked, but I earned way more than my friends working in fast food. Some restaurateurs understand that creating good work conditions/wages helps retain staff which is ultimately good for business. However, he has a staffing shortage right now.


Is this pub in Toronto? I'd love to visit


Its a date henry


Nah fellow redditor I don't do dates 😂


You just said no to a maple beaver. Man thats cold. I would love to spend an evening with a maple beaver.


I feel like I'm missing a joke here, what do you mean by "maple beaver"?


Think long and hard and you will see it. Yes its exactly what you think it is.


Lol jk broski


servers make a ton of cash in my area (liberty village) toronto.




Oh yes, I absolutely agree. I just wanted to point out that even places that treat their employees fairly are having trouble finding workers


It's an excellent business model, builds trust in the community as well. Inspires return business and I would imagine a good working environment. Kudos to your dad.


I love that your dad is the exception to the rule, however that does not take away from the fact that the MAJORITY of restaurants and food service employers are evil and treat their staff like shit. This was not a direct attack on you or your father. But reality is... \*spreads arms to emphasise the dumpster fire consuming the restaurant industry.\* Sorry buddy.


Sorry, I should have been more clear, I 100% agree with you. I know that most restaurants/cafes/pubs suck. I've worked as a server and agree that it can be absolute misery.


Its okay. The capitalists have one group of workers blaming another group of workers for their problems all the while laughing aboard their mega yachts about how gullible we are. Eat the rich.


Even the few good employers I worked for in the industry were exploitive in one way or another.


Worked at Tims in HS and a bit in college and made pretty ok money, it was probably the equivalent of $20/hr today. I somehow doubt they are paying their employees that now. People my age and older need to realize that those jobs are just not what they were even 2 decades ago.


Tim's is a laughingstock, I love how they still try to portray themselves as Canadiana darlings.


If you watch the in store shit on their screens (work truck stops there, only place sometimes to get a coffee) They actually are trying to promote working st tims as if its a national or community service doing your comminity a solid. What a joke.


Was that when it was still a Canadian company?


Yes, though I worked there during the transition to frozen food. Funny how the cost cutting measures for supply also brought lower wages.


When I worked there in 2005 it was $6.85 (student wage) which equals just over $9 today


Depends on location for sure. When I started I was making a couple dollars over minimum wage. By the time I quit I was around $14, but I was baking and shift supervising.


That's hilarious how it would be equivalent to $20 today because the tims near me is offering at most $15.50 for a full-time supervisor position


I left restaurants years ago not because I didn’t love the job, I truly did and still miss it every day. I left because I couldn’t deal with toxic and unsafe work environments, terrible work life balance and low pay. If it wasn’t for all that I’d go back in a heartbeat.


It's weird to me we have to talk about this. How the fuck is it not common knowledge that restaurants are some of the worst environments to work in? You are paid below minimum wage because you earn tips. That right there is where the conversation should end and fixing it should start.


>You are paid below minimum wage because you earn tips. That right there is where the conversation should end and fixing it should start. Agreed. Worse yet for the BoH staff that often don't get tipped out...so it's min wage only.




I still have a drawer for work clothes that smells of deepfryer oil. haven't worked a kitchen in 6 years...


Assuming you want to keep them… Soak them for a few hours in hot water with a couple cups of white vinegar and a couple handfuls of salt. Then put them through the washer on the hottest and longest cycle. If they still smell, toss ‘em! Glad you’re out of the commercial kitchen. :-)


I didn’t start drinking coffee until about a decade after leaving Hortons. The smell was glued to you and I couldn’t stomach it for years.


I’m only recently coming around to the smell of coffee again and I quit timmies 5 years ago. I feel you.


I'd love to know which kitchens these days are only paying min wage, and which ones aren't getting tips? Tips to BoH is pretty universal, it's a fraction of what servers make, but it does happen.


last time I was in a kitchen it was for $11.25/hr...like 2015 or so


I don't represent everyhing but in Toronto, from me and my friend's experience, its either 80/20 or 70/30. The problem is usually there are more BOH than FOH. so wage gap between BOH and FOH is Still cruelly high. the restaurant I work at open job posted for server and cooks. They found watiers the next day and they haven't found cooks for 2 months now :)


People have gotten accustomed to being 'served' like they're royalty, to always being right when they're in a restaurant, and so they don't want to hear that the people serving them and making their food are completely miserable. Takes away from the experience.


Tipping is the source of all our woes. It means staff get underpaid. It means tables that aren't expected to tip well get worse service. It means servers that aren't attractive, or are ethnic, receive lower tips. It means patrons can treat waitstaff like crap because they're paying them directly. It's an unspoken, elephant-in-the-room the entire time you interact with your server. Abolish. Tipping.


Usually tips easily pop you over minimum wage, and if you work at a decent establishment it's usually 2x or more then minimum wage.


Where in Canada do they still do that? It’s 15 minimum in Alberta now regardless of it’s a tipped industry. Making $25 plus benefits but still nobody will fill these jobs. Meals are getting outright unaffordable I think we will see a lot of closures


My wife worked in a restaurant in BC up until two years ago and at that point she was making $7.45/hr plus tips, only getting three shifts a week. She ended up quitting after being yelled at for the last time. She had her lunch slapped out of her hands screamed at by chefs and managers.


You mean people don't want to scrape by while being yelled and screamed at? And having their skin scratched and their hair pulled, while running, and running, and high kicking, and twirling? For not enough money to live? People *don't* want that?


This might also explain a decline in birth rate.


>having their skin scratched and their hair pulled, while running, and running, and high kicking, and twirling The hell kind of restaurant are you working at? Sounds hardcore.


This is true for many, but not all. Some restaurants treat their staff like gold, but still can't get enough staff. People are horrible, demanding, and mean when they eat out, they treat servers like garbage. Being a restaurant hostess during the pandemic is easily one of the worst service jobs you could have. So taking home $30/hr with your tips, still doesn't make the job more enjoyable. It's been an exhausting year and people are over it.


I try to avoid eating in restaurants because of the fact I worked in so many when I was younger and 80% of the owners were complete arrogant scumbags, the kitchens were filthy and unsanitary even in upscale places, the employees were miserable mostly hs dropouts who hated their lives and their jobs. They can dress it up, the 'experience', nice decor, music, fancy names for dishes, obscure ingredients, but the heart of it is rotten, and you are paying too much for food you could prepare more healthy and cheaper at home, and made by yourself or family member where there's some wholesomeness there. Fuck restaurants, let the industry burn.


lol I love how they're making it seem like the instability isn't coming from the risk of being out of work for 6 month stretches from policies. Why would anyone who needs to pay bills take that risk at the moment? There is lots of money to be made in restaurants for the upper echelon of them. Not a lot for the kid out of high school. But the fact that none of them know if they will be employed based on a provinces decisions doesn't make it desirable for just about anyone right now.


No kidding


surprised pikachu face


> "The proviso to any complaint about a labour shortage is there's a shortage — at the wage I'm willing to pay," Macdonald said. "That's the piece that's always missing."


I just opened a restaurant; please send me my $millions. I also need some pee-ons to work shitty hours for shitty wages. Thx.


>Low wages, instability to blame for restaurant industry labour shortage In other news, recent studies determined that water is wet.


If anybody thinks labour shortage is not because of shite pay, is dumb as a bag of rocks


Go figure, if you pay people a decent wage they will want to work for you. Maybe factor that in as an important business expense instead of a fucking burden.


A restaurant that treats its staff well, is still inferior to any other type of workplace because "good" in the industry still means no breaks, shit pay and poor compensation, along with crazy hours and no work life balance.


So this is the end of restaurants. Unless you are willing to open a mom and pop shop where you and your partner do it all yourselves and don't have to hire anyone. I say this because I earn an average Canadian wage and I can't really afford to go out to an average restaurant like earl's or the keg anymore. If wages go up so will the prices. And if I know that the waiter is making $20/h I won't leave a decent tip.


Had a dollar raise for a higher position supervising restaurants and all the tasks required was just not worth it. Became a punching bag for guests and management while being held responsible for every little thing beyond my control. Made more with approved overtime as a kitchen worker back then.


Read next along as you go.


Got to treat your workers well and pay them enough to live, not just survive.


I used to work in restauration and it was easily the worst job I've ever had. Wake up at 5 to be in at 5:30 to get everything prepped for opening. Make food for people who want modofications/subsitutions in 70% of the dishes and getting absolutely 0% of the tips, even though kitchen staff provide 100% of the food and make the same as the servers. It's a shit industry and I would sooner go on welfare than work in a kitchen again.


This is a good opportunity to reform the system. I'm a Canadian living in Japan, where there is no tipping. Restaurants pay their employees a regular hourly rate, which is not high, but not minimum wage (in most cases.) Culturally, good service is very important. I have never received what I would call "bad service" at a restaurant here. I've seen terrible customers, but never terrible staff. I don't know exactly how the system works in most places, but ending tipping and forcing establishments to pay fair wages to their staff seems better to me. I'm curious to hear what everyone here thinks about ending the practice of tipping. Would you support it?


Restaurant workers should form a union.


I'm all for higher wages. My brief experience working in that industry was... unpleasant, to say the least. However that means that restaurant prices will have to increase as well. Not sure this is a viable option for many places and it probably means that many will have to close and those jobs will be lost anyway.


I'll say it again for those in the back who might not have heard it the first time: IF YOUR BUSINESS MODEL DOESN'T LET YOU PAY YOUR EMPLOYEES A LIVING WAGE, YOU DON'T HAVE A VIABLE BUSINESS. Staffing costs are typically about a third of the total expenditures for a restaurant. (The rest is food - about another third - and other overheads: lease, utilities, etc.) Giving staff a 30% raise would increase the restaurant's operating costs by about 10%. As a diner, I'd accept that increase to the menu price.


>Giving staff a 30% raise would increase the restaurant's operating costs by about 10%. As a diner, I'd accept that increase to the menu price. I think that's something that consumers have to accept if they want their servers paid a fair wage, too. Restaurants run on notoriously thin margins to the point that a 10% increase in operating costs would make the vast majority unprofitable.


Oh prices are jumping. $24 for a small noodle bowl, $10 for a Moscow mule, a nice lunch with one drink and you’re looking at $90 for 2 people. I don’t see this being sustainable long term. Servers making more than ever before because the 15% tip has stuck with the higher prices, but will be less and less customers.


Yep. Going to get burgers and fries for two adults and two kids at a family restaurant is like 60$ now. At a real sit-down restaurant it cost us over 100$ the last two times and the food was so-so. Conversely we tried to go to McDonalds during a busy weekend on the road and every single terminal they had was broken at two different places. Took 20 minutes of standing in line to get two burgers. Clearly they do have a severe staffing problem.


My brother whines about finding "good staff". I dunno, but having to be available 11am until 11pm five days a week even though you might only get 15-20 hours, plus having to be available any time on weekends is a hard sell. Wah I can't exploit my staff, feel sorry for me.


I worked in a factory that’s like 39 degrees 24/7. Yesterday it was literally warmer inside then it was outside. Boss is chill tho and understands when half the workers leave early on hot days. Pays absolutely dog shit tho but to be fair even when it’s not hot people dick around and don’t get stuff done which ruins it for the hard workers.


I worked as a bartender/server and it was great. With tips I averaged about $35/hr on week days and usually over $50/hr on weekends. I personally found the work very easy and I could easily walk out with atleast $250 cash for a 6hr shift on the weekend. I generally only did 18-24hr a week by choice. It was hands down the most simple laid back time of my life. I'm not sure what's going on now that people are having such a hard time in the industry. Maybe I just had a one of a kind job.


In other words, “CERB pays me more to sit at home.” CERB was absolutely necessary. But I’m afraid that it gave Canadians a taste for paid unemployment, and that Pandora’s box might not be so easy to close in this case. I think this was the unintentional trial-run for universal basic income, and clearly people like the idea. IMO, this pandemic gave us a good glance of the dystopian future that universal basic income would help usher in.


it's OK, restaurant and small business owners who pay their employees shit, the Liberals have a little program called Temporary Foreign Workers! When the "free" market shifts in favour of wage earners we just ship in a whole shwack of TFW from Asia or the Philippines and you can say good bye to pushy self important waitresses and demanding fast food workers and hello to beholden, gracious workers who will work very hard and do lots for free because they fear being sent home! Don't forget us when it's time to hire boardmembers!


>the Liberals have a little program called Temporary Foreign Workers! Funny that you classify it as a Liberal program when it was Harper's Conservatives that blew the doors wide open [\[1\]](https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jinny-sims/temporary-foreign-workers_b_5284052.html) [\[2\]](https://ipolitics.ca/2014/04/28/kenney-in-hot-seat-as-controversy-rages-over-temporary-foreign-workers/) for it. Much like everything else that one side or the other complain about, the blame can be placed on both.


I love this discussion it always turns to " servers make to much money " But they don't They get treated like crap by owners, boh ,customers. They will never get a loan other then from a bad loaner. No health care No job security No persons. So we'll the customer blame the servers znd thr back of the house blames the servers and owners act like they are varly scraping by. The real issue is no restaurant owner will ever pay staff a living wage unless forced to. Back of house want better pay Servers want better pay 20 dollars a hour abd cut out tiping like most European countrysvand Australia. But you better belive owners will shift that price right onto you thr customer. Then act like they are poor and hard done by.


Min wage is 30k a year here in Ontario. If you're doing $50 a shift in tips you're pretty much right on par with the average starting salary for someone with a 4 year degree. What am I missing?


You're missing the cooks, busboys and dishwashers who often get little to no tips. good luck running a restaurant without them.


Not only in the restaurant industry. It's over 35°C in my shop with people making just above minimum wage, working in oil, coolant, cast iron dust and heat. They refuse to install an AC, even if it would prop up efficiency and eliminate heat pause. I was part of the managing team for the production department last year and I asked them to move the AC from the office to the shop, because we need it more then them (I was kinda serious, kinda joking). They were not happy. I'm no longer part of the production team, I'm now managing the quality control department, in an office, with AC... Last year, we hired illegal and legal immigrant from a firm, since covid we no longer can, so now we are hiring teenagers... It's pathetic.


Read next along as you go.


A lot of people working these jobs aren't that young though. They pay rent, have children, and need to make a living wage. These jobs aren't filled by teenagers. The reality is that many many people are low wage workers and they still have to feed their families.


Read next along as you go.




Not to mention that it's not up to the employees to take a financial hit to help subsidize the owner making a profit. It's not the fault of the employees that the owner can't figure out a sustainable business model. "How is the owner supposed to turn a profit?" is not the problem of any employee.


Read next along as you go.




Read next along as you go.


If your business plan amounts to "pay shit wages to help the bottom line" then that's a business that deserves to go under. And it's a lot more than kids working in restaurants. It's an industry dominated by female employees, often well past their teens.


So it's okay for everyone to make more money but the employee? Fuck that.


I left the restaurant industry as BoH because in the 3 kitchens I worked in I saw my chefs (all early to mid 30s with families) putting in 60-80 hours a week with no paid OT for $45,000-$60,000/year. They also would have to pay for their mediocre benefits, no sick days, and struggled and fought just to get 1 week off in a year. At one point I was assistant Kitchen Manager interviewing people in their 40s-50s for a closing line cook position for $14/hr (min wage at the time was something like 13.25/hr). Unless you are absolutely top tier, it is a shit wage for a high stress, hard working job that provides nearly no benefits or perks whatsoever


Servers are some of the highest paid workers for those without post secondary (and even those with) All this complaining yet they make 70 plus an hour TAX FREE!!!!!!! The real issue is Tim Hortons and McDonald’s and other low skilled labour jobs. Buuuuuuut if you give them raise you have to give those who committed years Of their life studying as well.


All wages are being suppressed. This is why the owner class has been doing so well. Practically everyone’s wages should go up and that should start at the bottom of wage ranges


i.e., Wage theft. And nobody in the restaurant industry wants to fall victim to wage theft anymore.


LMAO "70/hr tax free" eh, sounds like a uniquely high-class restaurant (not the norm) where servers don't declare their full income to CRA (probably more common because cash is harder to trace, still technically illegal).


Maybe you just dated some ugly servers. The women I know easily make 3-400 in a night for four hours of work. Not high class restaurants


It's the traditional form of Onlyfans. Only works for a limited time, and then you're back to reality.