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Scrum Debate #8 - Hiyoko vs. Mikan

Scrum Debate #8 - Hiyoko vs. Mikan

IonKnight

Hello everyone, and welcome to Scrum Debate #8! For those joining us for the first time, the tl;dr is that this event is a weekly discussion series where users post write-ups arguing for one side of the week's debate, earning points for their side in turn. This week we're pitting the bully against her victim, comparing Hiyoko and Mikan. Two drastically different personalities on the surface, but beneath their usual demeanors, they have a bit more in common... >!(that and they both die in 2-3 lmao)!< --- **To participate in this contest,** please comment below with a brief analytical write-up arguing in favor of either **Hiyoko Saionji** or **Mikan Tsumiki.** For examples of what kind of writeups we're looking for, and if you need any inspiration, I highly implore you to check out some of the top posts from past debates (which you can find at the bottom of this comment) or the [character discussion threads](https://www.reddit.com/r/danganronpa/comments/4ceg1m/character_discussion_masterlist_all_spoilers/) we hosted a few years ago. Please try to make your writeup comparative, explaining your choice in the debate *relative* to the other. The winner will be determined by a three-point system, with the character earning at least 2 out of 3 points winning the week's scrum debate: 1. Whichever character has the most writeups supporting them will earn a point. 2. Whichever character is supported by the highest-upvoted writeup will earn a point. 3. Whichever character has the most cumulative upvotes between all writeups arguing in their favor will earn a point. Upvotes on constructive, analytical replies to writeups will also earn points towards this metric. **Please note** that low-effort comments which do not make any attempt at analysis will not count towards these metrics. **Zero-effort comments,** such as those simply stating the character they're voting for with no elaboration, **will be removed.** Also, posts that only argue *against* one side will not earn any points. Remember to keep it civil. --- This thread will run for **7 days** from the time of this post before a winner is decided. Afterwards, a post commemorating the winner's victory will be pinned for a day, before we move to the next debate. If you'd like to look at upcoming scrums to prepare in advance for future weeks, or to see the victors of prior scrums, check out the [**schedule.**](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WG1WDMRmv45EqFBidxZ2Rwdqp4TfLPEtzhxhGvv3u-Q/edit#gid=0)


TheGreenRigidArrow

So, I do think Hiyoko character has glimmers of potential, but I have to go with Mikan. Not only do I think her character is amazing and actually pretty well-written, but also, she’s my favorite character in the entire franchise. But to explain my reason, I will write an analysis on both of these characters and explain to you why I believe Mikan is better than Hiyoko **Backstory** Both characters have traumatic backstories that can be used to explain their behavior. I think it fair to give a rundown on both of these characters' backstory and then say my thoughts on them. So, let's start with Mikan. Mikan's backstory is pretty heavy. She has been repeatedly abused, physically, emotionally, and sexually. Not only that but was heavily bullied. The reason she even has the medical skills to become the ultimate nurse is because as a child, no one would help her, so she learned to do it herself. Her bullies would also take advantage of Mikan's submissiveness by telling her to do numerous tasks and actions that would embarrass and or harm Mikan, but entertain her bullies. Acts like telling her to act like certain animals, being the targets for dart games, telling her to strip to her clothes, etc. She even said that being part of the killing game is like heaven to her because she's not being tortured. Mikan has an immense amount of trauma, and it does affect her personality heavily, but we will get to that later. Now, Hiyoko’s story. Not all of her free times are used to explain her story, but from what we know, I will try to place the pieces together. From what I noticed, Hiyoko's story is more scattered than Mikan’s, but it’s a criticism I will save for later. Hiyoko’s story starts by being the heiress of the Saionji bloodline. The problem is that people who shared the same bloodline as her tends to die. Because of her lineage, she has to deal with being a target for conspiracies or even assassination. They even go as far as to put pins in her shoes, scatter dead mice all over her bed, drops stage lights on her, and poison her food. There’s no real in-depth explanation on her bloodline, and why it’s so important enough to cause such ill reaction, but one thing we do know is that Hiyoko wholeheartedly cares about her dad. He was someone who helped Hiyoko and was there for her. But her grandma thinks the family name is more important, so she took her away from her parents. Hajime then asked Hiyoko if she feels lonely, which Hiyoko went quiet and then say that why she appreciates Hajime talking to her. Which shows that very well the case. Now that we know both stories, here are my thoughts. I just feel like Mikan's backstory is more intertwined with her personality and character. Hiyoko backstory did explain her personality, but it doesn’t really intertwine with it. Her backstory wasn’t shown or even hinted at in the main game. And even then, in her ftes, her story was only really explored her in the third fte and that’s about it. I just think it should’ve been more expanded on and less hidden. Mikan for example, just from not only her hair, but also her timid nature and some of the stuff she says, you can easily get the feeling that there’s more to her and even piece together that someone was horrible to her. With Hiyoko, there’s no real hint that shows she has a deeper backstory or sign that she went through this other than her personality. But her personality could easily be seen as another shallow bully character with no hints of something more. And that is what Mikan's character did well, but Hiyoko's character did poorly on. And it's important because these hints can really bring an interest in researching and analyzing a character more. Now, let's analyze both of their personalities. **Personality** Mikan is a very timid, submissive, and an overall meek individual. She’s willing to let people walk all over her, won’t fight back if people insult her or disrespect her, and is incredibly sensitive. But she's also willing to help her classmates. One of the reasons she helped a lot is because she wished to be useful, and hate feeling useless. She’s also very apologetic about anything she does in the fear that she’s doing something wrong. She’s very socially inept and it’s clear that most of these traits are caused by her trauma. She’s constantly worries and is paranoid if she’s doing anything wrong when she socially interacts with people. Even being easily prompted to breaking down into tears. But when she’s nursing someone, she’s seemingly more confident and overall less shy than her normal personality. She’s also a very knowledgeable person, and even gives health advice or describes body functions in too much detail. It's clear that her trauma has very much affected Mikan's personality, but what’s also interesting is her mindset on certain aspects. Even though Mikan obviously doesn’t like being bullied, she does allows it to happen to her in the hopes people will keep associating with her or even like her. Plus, we learned in her final ftes that Mikan's worst fear is actually to be ignored because in Mikan's eyes if no one is bullying her, that means no one cares about her existence. She fear this so hard to the point that she preferred to be bullied and maybe even grow to see people bullying her as some sort of affection. Most likely because of her warped perception of love and attention. Her fears of being ignored also might explain her “accidental trips”. But what’s also revealed in her ftes are her feelings about nursing patients. Even though she genuinely wants better for her patients, she does relish on the feeling of the power dynamic she has over them. The fact that they have to rely on her and listen to her is a good feeling to Mikan. But despite this feeling, she doesn’t hurt or abuse her patients. Just relish in this feeling of power. Now, I personally think that Mikan's personality is actually really written and very subversive of the usual shy girl trope. I think these more darker aspects of her mindset not only prevent Mikan from being a shallow character but also show the clear effects of her trauma. Because most people who go through similar things as Mikan isn’t gonna come out as a perfect person. They’re gonna have flaws and strange outlooks in life caused by their past. And I feel like these more subtle aspects fit her character amazingly. Not only that, but her flaws aren’t unlikable and make sense considering her past. It caused most people to not only sympathize with Mikan but also desire her to be in a better state than she is shown in the killing game. Her ftes add way more layers to a character that is shown to have glimmers of backstory and trauma. Even though she's definitely not a perfect character, I’d say her personality has a great balance of her kind and sweet side, and her more deep and darker side. Now, Hiyoko’s personality. Hiyoko is a direct, cruel, and malicious person. Even though she isn’t physically violent, she’s completely willing to insult and tear down others for her own amusement. Even going as far as to harm small animals. She's also pretty distrustful and cynical, but you could say her backstory plays a part in why she's so skeptical of others. It also seems like Hiyoko uses her harsh attitude as some sort of defense mechanism. But even though Hiyoko can dish it, she seemingly can’t take it. Interestingly enough also like Mikan, she can easily be prompted to tears if anyone decides to snap back at Hiyoko. But Hiyoko also displayed crocodile tears as a way to get what she wants. But she does appear to genuinely cry sometimes even though she might claim otherwise. She does like to manipulate and guilt-trip others to do her bidding. This could come from her belief that she’s superior over people. Hiyoko does display that she has a high sense of superiority, and the reason she would feel she's better than other people is because of her Saionji bloodline. Which would explain why she think people are there to serve her and can be very spoiled and even cry if she doesn’t get what she wanted. She even wanted Hajime to be her slave. Even though Hiyoko isn’t the most affectionate individual, it seems like the opposite when she’s with Mahiru. Hiyoko tends to be very affectionate and loving towards Mahiru. Even insisting that they both should bathe together. And considering how distrustful Hiyoko is, that’s an interesting 180 to make. Now, I do think in terms of making Hiyoko seems like an unlikeable bully, they wrote her personality well, but like I said earlier, even though there’s a reason she have this personality, the way she was written makes her appear as a shallow character, and her unlikable and cruel personality doesn’t do her any favors. I guess you can say her dialogue can be humorous, but I do think comparing Hiyoko flaws to Mikan flaws Hiyoko flaws aren’t sympathetic in nature which causes people to ignore her backstory when it comes to disliking her. And if you don’t find her humorous, you most likely gonna find her annoying throughout the game. Okay, this write up isn’t finished yet. The write up will continue below this comment.


TheGreenRigidArrow

Now, what’s important isn’t just backstory and personality. It’s also their role in the story. Let's discuss that next. **Roles** Now, Mikan surprisingly has a pretty important role throughout her stay in the story. But before we can get into that, let's talk about the elephant in the room... her fan service. I’m not gonna completely defend her fan service. I personally really don’t like her fan service and it's easily the worst part of her character for me. But I do think people sometimes overblown her fan service a lot. Even going as far as to say that her whole character is fan service. Which I strongly disagree with, but before telling you the other important roles she has in the story, let dive a lil deeper into what most people don’t like about her. Her fan service... Also, note. I’m gonna focus only on the game. Not the anime. I do think people can overblown Mikan’s fan service. In the game, Mikan only has 4 fan service scenes, minus her execution which is more like fan disservice. Another trope. But one thing I will give credit for is that in the game her fan service was used to further the plot and even used to hint at Mikan's desires for attention. Two of the fan service scenes were also used as evidence, and the other two were there to set up the fan service scenes that are gonna be used as evidence. So, it wasn't completely fan service. There was a use. Even though those scenes were still forced... But other than the fan service, Mikan has an important role of taking autopsy reports of the victims which always turn out to be crucial evidence to know. Even in the first trial, she prevented everyone from rushing to vote for Nagito by trying to remind people that the autopsy report doesn’t fit. And besides the autopsy report, another important clue she left in the first trial was her uh, fan service. But we already talked about that. In the next chapter, she played a semi-important role by again, taking autopsy reports and helping Akane, but not only that, but she was also Girl A in the Twilight Syndrome Murder Case. Which was really important to the trial. In the next chapter, she was pretty much one of the central characters in the 3rd chapter. Not only was she blackened, but she also played a very important role in actively healing and taking care of Fuyuhiko, and later, everyone who was afflicted with the despair disease. I feel like this shows that she’s not a useless character in the slightest and has played a pretty important role in this game overall. Now, let's move on to Hiyoko. In the first chapter, Hiyoko did nothing. You could remove her from the game and the chapter would go exactly the same way. But her importance changed in the next chapter. You could even say she's one of the central characters in the 2nd chapter. Just below Fuyuhiko, Peko, and Mahiru. Yeah, she didn’t contribute much when it comes to the class trial but she was pretty important in the plot of chapter 2 by not only befriending Mahiru, the victim, but was also used to be framed for her friend’s murder. She was also Girl B in the Twilight Syndrome Murder Case which I already said, is very important in the 2nd trial. In the next chapter, she also played an important role by having a mini-arc of redemption. We’ll get to that later. But right now, even though she wasn’t important in class trials, she did contribute to the story. I’d say Mikan is definitely a more important character than Hiyoko, but to give Hiyoko credit, she was important in the 2nd and 3rd chapters. It just Mikan was overall a more important character. Based on my analysis. Now, let talk about what exactly happened to these characters. **Fate** Now, I personally don’t like how both of these characters ended up, but I have to say, the way that Hiyoko died wasn’t well written at all. The problem with Hiyoko character is that there was a very clear arc and potential of redemption. Even the game established the possibility for her to change for the better. The problem is that right after the game established her potential character development, she didn’t really change. When Akane fought Monokuma causing Nekomaru to almost die, she went back to her own mindset. And not only that, she legit said the people who was sick with the despair disease should kill themselves because it would be easier on everyone else. “Development...” But here’s the worst part about her mini character arc. She just dies. She died with no real development... Listen, I get that not every death has to be grand, and some people simply die without really growing to be a better person. But the problem is that her death just feels... pointless? Her death doesn’t feel tragic or emotional because she died before changing. It was just kinda shocking then after the initial shock, it was just a more empty reaction. Well, unless you were a Hiyoko fan. Her death doesn’t establish anything in her or anyone else’s character. Her death was legit overshadowed in the class trial for the other victim. It was so overshadowed to the point they glossed over Hiyoko’s murder weapon. Do you remember in chapter 2 where Monokuma forced the player to find out the murder weapon of the girl in the Twilight Syndrome Murder Case even though it had nothing to do with the current case? It's just interesting that it wasn’t even a discussing point for Hiyoko’s death. I just personally believe that they didn’t wrote her death well in the slightest. If they want to kill her before truly developing, then they could’ve emphasized the more despairing and tragic nature of her dying before she gets a chance to change. Or even have her death caused by Hiyoko putting aside her usual stubborn nature to do something selfless, which would prove Hiyoko's point right in the end. Which that helping people and friends can get you killed. Or maybe even the opposite that shows if Hiyoko was a little more kinder and selfless, her death would be avoided. And considering who her killer is, they could’ve definitely gone with that route. But no, there wasn’t anything too creative or depth put into it. Just an empty death with an empty motive and an empty reaction. And speaking of her killer, let's get into Mikan’s fate. I also don’t like how Mikan went out as well, but I will say it’s better than Hiyoko’s for a couple of reasons. Number one, there was a purpose. In Mikan's final moments as the blackened, she foreshadowed the plot twist of the game, and added more questions and potential theories like who’s her beloved? And what does she exactly mean by her past self? Now, I do think they could’ve done the whole thing better, but the purpose was still there. Number 2. It helped show more depth in Mikan’s character. Specifically, the despair side of her. Plus, her having a mental breakdown created a pretty tense scene which also showed another side of her. Not only did it establish parts of her character, but also, seemingly add more layers to a character that was seen as sweet and helpful throughout the whole game. And number 3. It left an impact. The issue with Hiyoko's death is that it just didn’t leave an impact. Not saying Mikan's demise was super impactful, but her death does change a couple of key things in the game. Like her autopsy reports. Her autopsy reports were usually important clues in the case. Plus, if Mikan was left alive in chapter 5, Nagito's plan might have been foiled. Second, it adds more suspension on who the traitor is. Even Kazuichi mentions what Mikan did as another reason on why he doesn’t trust Hajime. Now, the main issue with despair Mikan for me is that they made her hints of her true motive and story way too subtle, and even though she was a big clue for the endgame plot twist, they failed to mention her, and completely fail to explore what she said during the **whole** game. If they were to make something as simple as a flashback with Hajime now getting what Mikan said and what she means by her beloved and why she did what she did, it would prevent a lot of confusion. Because there are still people who genuinely believe that 2-3 Mikan was the actual Mikan and she was faking her personality the whole time when in reality, that’s just completely wrong. And if the game were to cleared that up more, people's perception of Mikan would actually change. Because you’ll be surprised at how many people genuinely think Mikan is just a crazy yandere for her “beloved”. There’s more stuff I don’t like, but I think it best to end this segment here. **Conclusion** I just analyzed both of these characters and said my thoughts and explanations on why Mikan was better. Of course, it’s all opinions at the end of the day, and if you prefer Hiyoko over Mikan, that’s completely valid! But this write-up is my reason why I disagree, and why I believe Mikan is simply better than Hiyoko in multiple ways.


SubwayBossEmmett

I would be very disappointed if this doesn't end up top comment for the whole scrum, very great breakdown and comparison.


Apple_gun

You, sir, probably have earned a point for our side


Zealousideal_Ad_718

Really wonderful write up Take my award


SoniaSaysNevermind

Superb write up! Looking forward to the results


redbean_chan

as expected of green, a really good writeup


The-Crystal-Wolf

As expected of you, Green. (Not in a negative way. At all.) Your analysis is, honestly, the best to me.


Pizza_Vigilante

YES! Thank you so much! You gave my bestgirl so much love! One of my favorite comments I ever wrote was about her, you can check it out [Here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/danganronpa/comments/oejdha/lil_ultimate_nurse_requested_by_udusk_moonlight/h47e5zv/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)


StrugglingOnion

jesus christ kudos Green *\*slow clap\**


Thunder84

This is honestly the most fascinating matchup yet to me. Hiyoko and Mikan seem so wildly different on the surface, but ultimately they're both quite similar, and I have to imagine that's on purpose. They're also both prime examples of Danganronpa's bizarre inability to complete certain character arcs, which ultimately serves to harm both of their characters in the long run. At their cores, both Hiyoko and Mikan are incredibly damaged. They've both suffered serious abuse and trauma in their lives, to the point where neither feels safe with strangers and tries to divert away from genuine social interaction. The contrast between them comes from how they employ that diversion, which ultimately serves as the basis for their interactions. Hiyoko does everything in her power to get attention off of herself by actively pushing people away through her constant negativity and bullying. When the attention is drawn on her (usually by people calling her out), she guilts them into looking away through her child act, using her appearance plenty of crocodile tears to, at the very least, make people not want to deal with her. Mikan, on the other hand, tries to draw as much attention onto herself as possible, regardless of whether its positive or negative attention. It even reaches the point where she'll forsake her own dignity in order to get all eyes on her with her inconspicuous tripping. Naturally, these two different approaches clash hard. Interestingly enough though (and I can't imagine this wasn't intentional) they complement each other nicely. Mikan is more than willing to take the brunt of Hiyoko's wrath because, to her, that's an easy outlet for attention. For Hiyoko, Mikan makes for an easy target to shift attention onto. In a bizarre way, they end up working together almost to achieve what they want, although the interaction as a whole is clearly negative. Obviously, neither of these tactics are healthy. Both only serve to push people further away from them and further widen the divide between them and others, and their give-and-take relationship is not healthy in the slightest. However, you can see that, deep down, both of them do want to create a bond of trust. Hiyoko is pretty much glued to Mahiru for the duration of the first 1.5 chapters, and Mikan is borderline obsessed with Hajime if he makes the effort to forge a bond. Neither one knows exactly *how* to maintain that relationship though, hence why they both default to unhealthy attachment. They've both spent so long pushing people away that they have absolutely no idea how to maintain a healthy friendship with another person. This is where I think Danganronpa 2's biggest flaw lies. They had an absolutely brilliant arc set up between these two that they quite simply never capitalized on. For the brunt of the Daily Life in Chapter 3, we see Hiyoko struggling with the death of Mahiru and how to proceed. She clearly doesn't like or trust the rest of Class 77-B, causing her to revert to pushing people away and belittling willing targets. However, she also has her sights set on Fuyuhiko, who was arguably the main cause for Mahiru's death. However, Fuyuhiko's own despair and grief manage to break through to Hiyoko, who starts to reflect on her own behavior and grief. Despite her hatred of him, she's able to see some of herself in him, and as Fuyuhiko begins to heal and recover, so does Hiyoko. This is where Danganronpa 2 left so much untapped potential. Pitting Hiyoko against Mikan at this stage would have resulted in another brilliant contrast between the two. On one hand, you have Hiyoko, who's reaching out to others and slowly healing. On the other hand, you have Mikan, who at that point has, in a sense, been abandoned by the one person who bothered to ever give her attention, even if that attention came through relentless bullying. That would have made for a brilliant motive and class trial, with Mikan spiraling even further into despair and loneliness by committing murder, while Hiyoko continues to heal over the course of the game and see the path she could have walked herself if she continued to close herself off. Hell, with a larger rewrite they could have gone the opposite route and have Mikan be the one that heals while Hiyoko spirals downwards. They just had to have one meet a positive end while the other one meets a negative one. Instead, we got the ever so lovely despair disease, which crippled both characters before either one could capitalize on any of the potential the game had provided them. 2-3 is frequently called out for being bad, and for good reason. The class trial of 2-3 is honestly some of the worst writing I've seen in any game, and this is a big reason why. This is on the minor side, but I'm also a bit skeptical as to Spike Chunsoft's usage of Mikan as a character. Her whole character revolves around attracting any sort of attention, I get that, but at times it feels like the game is exploiting that for some cheap and easy fanservice. Her unfortunate tripping and gratuitous swimwear (particularly in DR:S) make sense, sure, but it still feels a bit over the top. Considering that Mikan is pretty heavily implied to be a sexual assault victim, the fanservice can feel pretty gross. So, between the two, I'd give my vote to Hiyoko, although it isn't just due to the fanservice issues with Mikan. I was legitimately shocked as to how much I liked Hiyoko in 2-3's Daily Life upon my replay of DR2. She legitimately carries the chapter along with Fuyuhiko, something I never thought I'd say. It only served to make her pointless death feel even worse. One of the biggest "what-ifs" in the series for me.


OrganicHotChoco

I completely agree, I always wanted to say that about them, as they are pretty much two sides of the same coin, both abused to the point of extreme paranoia, Hiyoko especially They form a very toxic symbiotic relationship, each "helping" there others problems grow, to the point where both can't be kept alive without getting heaps of of negative character development between the two, each pushing each other deeper into there problems whenever they interact, till it's just a sad pit of despair One of them had to die for the other to develop positively, and chapter three would have been the perfect time to do it, all they had to do was make one of them kill because of their trauma, let the other watch(in the trial), and it would have been perfect But they had to do the chapter three rule and a bad motive, ruining everything Now there both dead, for practically no reason besides the chapter 3 rule, the notorious character arc killer Also, I actually kind of like how they use Mikan as fanservice, as that's what she wants to be seen as, it's heavily implied (and even pointed out by Hiyoko) that she probably does it on purpose to get others pity and attention, whether negative or positive, though I do think its a bit to much, and they(spike chunsoft) should limit it to at most once per chapter If this counts as a vote, I pick Hiyoko, cause even though both are okay, I think Hiyoko is funnier and more interesting


Jack_slasher

As I was so thoroughly convinced that my initial assumptions of this being a landslide in Mikan's favor were wrong, I'll have to lean to Mikan. Because Mikan is a good character. She has an immediate presence in the game just from her title alone and she makes use of it for the of the time she is alive, and leaves the party at a disadvantage post-mortem. She's fanservice, but fanservice with a point. Mikan is one of the few who's FTEs work to accentuate a character's behavior in the story. All the fanservice is intentional and she's not remotely the humanitarian you would think. Her true self is not far from the Despair Mikan that appeared in chapter 3. That not only gave Mikan depth but she stands as a symbol of how the group could be taken in by Junko. Until DR3 ruined it anyway. As for Hiyoko? I'm a believer in the idea that a character's usefulness should not wholesale determine whether they are a good character or not. Hiyoko, however, is not useful in any capacity. She's a brat who likes getting on everyone's nerves? A dime-a-dozen in DR. Many like Byakuya, Miu, or Kokichi are fan favorites. The difference between characters like them and Hiyoko, is that they are entertaining. Hiyoko just acts like a bully, taking the same strategy to all her insults time and again. There's nothing interesting about 'how' she's a mean person. Her FTEs are too divorced from the main plot, certainly more than Mikan's so that's a point against her. The nail on the coffin is Hiyoko being an unfinished character by WoG's admission. I can only think of a single flattering thing to say about Hiyoko: She was a real one. When everyone was sucking up to Fuyuhiko in chapter 3, Hiyoko dropped the bombshell that everyone needed to hear - Fuyuhiko tried to, and got Mahiru killed. The cast got over that way too easily because of the drama with Peko. A huge problem with DR2 is how all the antagonism is sucked up like a blackhole by Nagito, so just about everyone else were way too positive. Fuyuhiko turned to the good side shortly into the game. Hiyoko could have been great as a sober reminder, but she's only used for one scene in that capacity. Shame, but nowhere near enough to compete with Mikan. And Mikan's hotter.


AfroWarrior27

>Because Mikan is a good character. No, not really. Between having a annoying personailty and having several poor writing decision. She far from being even good. > aracter or not. Hiyoko, however, is not useful in any capacity. She's a brat who likes getting on everyone's nerves? A dime-a-dozen in DR. Many like Byakuya, Miu, or Kokichi are fan favorites. The difference between characters like them and Hiyoko, is that they are entertaining. Hiyoko just acts like a bully, taking the same strategy to all her insults time and again That highly debatable. I found Hiyoko to be incredibly funny and hilarious. And you could downplay the others being an ass just like Hiyoko. >There's nothing interesting about 'how' she's a mean person. You could say the same about the others. How are the way the others you mention are mean anymore different than Hiyoko?


tommygun1945

Heavy agree on the Fuyuhiko point, it always bothered me how the cast gave Nagito(rightly) shit for 2-1 but never really said anything about Fuyuhiko and 2-2, i believe strongly that he deserved to be forgiven and that he earned his arc, but the class forgave him before he even said sorry, up until that point the last thing he said about Mahiru was "that bitch", until Hiyoko called him out, no one knew that he did feel awful for what he did. Though i disagree with Miu and Kokichi being more entertaining. Miu made a load of UWU I HAVE BIG TITS jokes and was so arrogant and abrasive to me and Kokichi, the way he treated Gonta just sucked out any entertainment value he had. Byakuya is certainly better though


Funny_Insult_Banana

Hiyoko funny Mikan not that funny Where is my prize, Hiyoko wins now


5YearsOnEastCoast

I would try to refute that, but I can't think of any reasons to refute that.


Cirno_the_strongest

Very wise words, fellow hiyoko enjoyer😔✋


KirbySuperstarUltra

As many have mentioned, Hiyoko and Mikan are two characters who prove to be quite similar to each other the more and more you think about them. In that way, they act as compelling foils for one another; two sides of the same broken, worn out coin. Character's whose pasts parallel each other as strongly as their outward demeanors contrast each other. I'm going to go with **Hiyoko** by a landslide for a few reasons. First thing I wanna start with is **backstory**. Hiyoko's backstory details a story of a girl raised in a surprisingly conventional environment by her father, [who had married into the renowned and prestigious Saionji clan](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/794808430359609355/805911492334714880/Screen_Shot_2021-02-01_at_4.23.53_PM.png); A clan known for their skill in traditional dancing. Hiyoko expresses a few times in FTEs and her island mode ending how much she cared for him and [how much Hajime resembles him](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/794808430359609355/805912715376721980/unknown.png). It's unclear how much Hiyoko's mom was in her life since [Hiyoko only mentions her in a wrong choice in her island mode ending](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/794808430359609355/805913529193332846/Screen_Shot_2021-02-01_at_4.31.35_PM.png). At a young age Hiyoko's grandmother [took her away from her Mother and Father](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/794808430359609355/805911491484188692/Screen_Shot_2021-02-01_at_4.23.07_PM.png) in order to live with her so that Hiyoko could hone her talent and become heir to the Saionji clan. On it's own, being forced to leave her parents behind like this gave Hiyoko abandonment issues. A handful of real symptoms; over-attachment/codependency which she conveys in both her immediate connection with Mahiru, but also her eventual connection with Hajime, both of which act as parental figures for Hiyoko. A couple other symptoms of note would be [pushing others away](https://imgur.com/mdmwf4P), [the need to control others](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/763227829889925170/837519592745861120/playthings.jpg), and [lack of emotional intimacy](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/794808430359609355/805924383981436958/Screen_Shot_2021-02-01_at_5.10.15_PM.png) What came next in Hiyoko's life certainly solidified these behaviors. It's made more than clear that Hiyoko's time spent with her grandmother was the worst of both worlds for her. The conflicts between the clan's branches made it so that she couldn't trust anyone but her immediate relative. As heir, members of different branches of the Saionji family would [target her](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/794808430359609355/805926386622660679/Screen_Shot_2021-02-01_at_5.23.16_PM.png) in ways that could greatly affect Hiyoko's well being for the sake of preventing her from becoming heir to the clan as she was destined to be. This created Hiyoko's trust issues, sense of mortality (seen in how strongly she expresses hating killers), and paranoia and reenforced Hiyoko's sour behaviour and willingness to push others away in spite of her longing for companionship. Not only this, but her grandmother, the only person she could trust at that stage in her life, neglected to teach her vital life skills, most prominently of course would be tying her own kimono. This built up an [inferiority complex](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/786786634979868713/786800514431320075/unknown.png) over her lack of independence. Growing up in an environment that didn't condition her to be self-sustaining, the only real thing she could do on her own was her talent; And that's **exactly** why she places so much pride and emphasis on it. She puts so much emphasis on talent because it's all she has. Independence is a driving force of her character. I find Hiyoko's character an intriguing look at an individual who's both overexposed to the harsh realities of death and betrayal and yet over-sheltered to the point where she's unable to be her own functioning individual. She's afraid to place trust in others, and yet relying on others is her only way of getting by. She's afraid to make connections, yet connections are something she deeply longs for. It really comes as no surprise how strongly Hiyoko would latch onto someone like Mahiru who represented the independence Hiyoko so strongly wished for. Hiyoko's behaviour is a result of strong paranoia first and foremost. Her sour attitude is her effort to come off as an individual who's as unapproachable as possible. She doesn't want to be seen as nice or friendly, and will try to correct this perception if she catches herself acting that way, or if anyone else calls her those things. It's a defense mechanism formed out of paranoia. Hiyoko also enhances DR2's **themes** to a far greater extent than Mikan does. Her past is a tale of an individual manipulated by the world around her to place value in *talent.* It made the girl willing to destroy her social, emotional, and practical development all for a role that would cause her nothing but pain and suffering. The idea that a person would leave the world as they know it, discarding who they once were in the process in order to attain a talent they'd be forced to rely on for the rest of their lives is anidea Hiyoko shares with the game's protagonist, Hajime Hinata. The two aren't so different in that way. DR2 repeatedly deconstructs the entire concept of what it means to be "talented" in a world that values talent above all else. Right from the start the game emphasizes that these people are anything but ordinary, [but not in the idealistic untouchable manner](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148933061575311360/824695088361898005/image0.png) that they're perceived by Nagito in DR2 and Makoto in DR1, but in a wholly negative context. [Hiyoko is no exception to this rule](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148933061575311360/824695088864296970/image1.png), and perhaps embodies that idea as strongly as Hajime does.We consistently see a link between talent, and the unconventional environments that these people grew up in. Kaz, Mikan, Akane, Fuyuhiko, Hajime, Sonia, Imposter, Nagito, and Peko all fall under this idea well to different degrees. the idea that [talent binds people down](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148933061575311360/824695179478040646/image0.png) and forces their owners to rely on them is something that strongly links back to Hiyoko as well. Another intriguing theme that runs constant in DR2 is the clashing of the ideologies of retribution (seeing one be punished for their misdeeds) and restoration (providing one with an opportunity to better themselves.) DR2 only exists because Makoto was willing to take this idea to the fullest extent by taking in and attempting to rehabilitate the remnants of despair. He is, in every way an embodiment of the idea of restorative justice. SDR2's themes very much cater against the concept of retributive justice to the fullest extent. Believing someone worthy of death for their "crimes" is the same flawed logic that got Teruteru to try and kill Nagito in 2-1, and made Fuyuhiko rush into revenge in 2-2; an action he retrospectively quite regretted as he came to understand Mahiru's point of view. She stood on the complete opposite end of that spectrum, never wishing harm on anyone no matter what they did, showing compassion to killers, and having a particular distaste for acts of revenge. This exact mindset carries over to Hiyoko come 2-3 when she's placed in a position where the unstable Fuyuhiko harms himself over her refusal to accept his initial apology. By all means if Saionji was truly as heartless as fans suggest, she wouldn't have taken that time to reconsider her ideals. If she truly wanted to hurt people with her words, she wouldn't have cared that Fuyuhiko stabbed himself because she wouldn't forgive him, she could've easily taken advantage of his instability to get him to complete the deed. Evidently however, Hiyoko does not want this. She forgives Fuyuhiko for the sake of honoring Mahiru's ideals which is a commendable testament to how much Hiyoko truly valued Mahiru and how much she wanted to improve herself. And that's really the core of DR2's themes of justice. Nobody deserved to die there. HIyoko wasn't justified in the things she did, and nor was Fuyuhiko. That didn't impact either's capacity to grow as people, Deeming any of the DR2 cast as worthy of death for their misdeeds would be missing that point completely. This got a bit long and the character limit is becoming an issue. I have a lot more to say regarding HIyoko's dynamics and how she represents trauma but I'll leave it at that.


SubwayBossEmmett

OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY The character that got cut down early right when they were about to get an arc? or the character that did the hardest 180 in characterization this side of MY BOY KOREKIYO because the best motive in the series I'll be real, I kinda dislike both of these two... they both have an interesting enough background, however it feels so unincorporated into the plot I don't want to give it credit. The winner is def gonna be **Mikan** via the process of elimination. Why you might ask? Because Hiyoko never made me crack a smile once when trying to be funny. At the very least Mikan's very unfunny falling poses gets an amazing punchline in it being damning for Teruteru's alibi in 2-1. Mikan's breakdown in 2-3 is also one of the best VA performances in the series (though there is a metric fuckton of things I'd say is "best voice acting in the series lol) with that *it's impossssssssible* has always been a very chilling line to me. Mikan also helps pretty well in cases 1 and 2 via autospy, that's always nice I guess. As for those limited positives, lets swap to Hiyoko in which I wanted to die every time I heard a generic animal esc insult because it was so bland and lifeless. It also was someone that was all bite and never could stand up if someone even remotely tried to speak back to them with annoying cries. Some of Byakuya's or Kokichi's best lines are usually in response to someone talking to them and disagreeing and shutting them up. Nagito's sass in ch4 after learning the truth is pretty glorious where he doesn't give a shit. Hiyoko doesn't get talked back by most people she insults without instantly crying about it. She only can target the weakest of the weak and doesn't actually say anything about herself within the insults or why she does outside of *heavily contested dg2 FTEs* that's not worked into plot. Like god, she's intentionally written so to be so unlikable that people aren't too surprised that she would kill someone in case 2. So in summary Hiyoko have a nonthreating bully that's not entertaining because she lacks creativity in insults without saying anything about the people she picks on. She picks the easiest target available which is boring, instead of everyone which is endearing slightly. While also barely growing out of it because she dies right as she tries to develop. Like sureeeeee she could have had an actual arc, but she didn't she just stopped. Because she died. I find very little in arguing about the what ifs for a character. ~~also worst talent for an ultimate in the games don't @ me~~


AfroWarrior27

> o in summary Hiyoko have a nonthreating bully that's not entertaining because she lacks creativity in insults without saying anything about the people she picks on Your really trying to say calling someone a "toilet clogging bitch" is lacking creativity? That's on the same level as Kokichi's "whore pig" comment. Actually I think it's more creative than that.


SubwayBossEmmett

Wow it’s on the level of Kokichi’s least creative insult Which at least whore Pig is a personalized jab directed at Miu’s personality. Toilet clogging bitch is just “haha you used the bathroom” like ???, is this funny to a fourth grader


AfroWarrior27

Nah, the delivery of it is what matter. And the way it was done was funny and savage like. Can’t agree with you there.


SubwayBossEmmett

If delivery of lines matters, Mikan stands out far more on basis of being unsettling as hell in 2-3. Much more than any other student when breaking down. It’s one of the most distinct vocal performances in the 3 games.


AfroWarrior27

Won’t deny her vocals performance was really good there. In the dub anyway. But I’m positive the sub was out there as well. I


ArcticFox19

I'm gonna go with Hiyoko on this one. Now, on surface level, Hiyoko's an awful person and Mikan's the victim who doesn't deserve anything. A lot of people would stop here and say "oh obviously Hiyoko's terrible, my vote goes to Mikan". But here's the thing that makes me disagree with this: Hiyoko gets development while Mikan stays more or less the way she is. Mikan doesn't get very much development. Typically, when a student becomes a culprit, you get to see how the circumstances have changed them and made them desparate. So, her motivation for killing Hiyoko and Ibuki in chapter three was... because she caught a weird disease that completely changes your personality against your will and would've made anyone else who caught the "remembering disease" have taken the same actions. The only real character relationship Mikan had was with Hiyoko, who *didn't like her*. And of course, since Mikan is the one who killed her, one would typically think that Mikan would be extremely satisfied and her character would develop from this (even if it's for the worse, it's still development). However, we don't get to see this develop naturally, because of the stupid "remembering disease" artificially screwing up her personality. If this were just a kill out of spite, it'd be significantly better for Mikan's character. In the end, she's just relegated as fanservice bait who goes through no real changes. In comparison, Hiyoko actually goes through severe grief and loss in the story. Hiyoko loses Mahiru in Chapter 2, the one person who she actually likes. And you see, Hiyoko actually tries to make herself better by being less hostile to those around her. Unfortunately, she is killed in the middle of the arc (likely not intentional, there's the theory that Hiyoko was killed in place of Fuyuhiko last second). But, despite the fact that she never got to complete her arc in DR2, we can see her getting better in DR3's Hope Arc. When Mikan saves her, she's still a little abrasive, but she thanks Mikan nonetheless, something she almost certainly would not have done in early DR2.


StuffedBear1917

I'm gonna give it to Mikan. Her case was bad ,but I still had a lot of fun with it and she was entertaining. Hiyoko is probably better written but I just don't like her at all. Nurse Waifu gets my vote.


EyeOfCthwooloo

Mikan vs. Hiyoko... Arguably one of my favorite, abd least favorite characters... Yeah, Hiyoko by a landslide. I honestly really, really like Hiyoko. But I don't really know why besides the fact that she's adorable. But I'll try my hand at it anyway. The best way to describe her is... Wasted potential. Utterly wasted. She had a boatload of potential in my opinion. At first glance, she just seems like an annoying, whiny, bratty jerk. Which, she is. But that's the point. There's a ton of room for her to improve. In chapter two--with Mahiru and Peko's deaths--Fuyuhiko and Hiyoko seemed set sail onto the path of character development. While Fuyuhiko's wasn't perfect, it was still quite well done. He certainly deserves to be a survivor. On the other hand of Hiyoko, we have mostly the same. A small, blonde brat with anger issues. So why couldn't they do the same? That's another reason I hate Chapter 3 and Mikan. All potential was completely wiped away by the hand of a weapon that was never even identified. Hiyoko's murder was incredibly shoddily made. Spending not more than... 20 minutes discussing it? Not a single character seemed to care, either. Not even Fuyuhiko. Which leads into my next point. Mikan. I hate Mikan. With a fiery passion. I hate her voice, I hate her character, I hate her murder, and I hate her execution. It's all bad. Her only saving grace was her decent design. Hell, I *tried* to like Mikan. But... I couldn't. She was irredeemable. Now, I get what was tried to be done regarding Hiyoko and Mikan's relationship. Hiyoko bullies Mikan because of her backstory, where she her literal life and health were challenged every day. Causing her to be extremely scornful and mistrusting of others. Both kinda have similar backstories in concept. One was a bully to protect themselves, and one was a victim to protect themselves. That's a neat idea. And they could've done a lot more with it. Hell, they could've done *Mikan* a lot better too. Strip away the fanservice scenes, give her a competent motive, maybe a bit of character development, and I might have liked her more. A TINY sliver of my soul still wants to like Mikan; she's just...also...wasted potential. Say... Have Sonia inadvertently save Hiyoko from Mikan's clutches by holding her up to get her kimono tied. It gives Hiyoko more character growth by trusting Sonia. Then have all of Mikan's stupid murder play out, but maybe replace Hiyoko with Soda or Akane. Then have Hiyoko *see* Mikan in her awful state. Hage her learn she was about to go the music venue, and nearly die. It gives her growth because since she decided to trust someone again, she gets to live. And challenge her morals by having the one she bullied and distained(because Mikan reminds Hiyoko of her past self) be a goddang awful person. She can even warm uo to Sonia more afterwards, seeing as she hated her almost as much as Mikan. There's just...so much Hiyoko could've done. Even if she lived only a single chapter longer. There's a lot of layers to her, that we only got a glimpse of through her freetime events. An *adorable* glimpse. also she's really cute


ArcticFox19

It doesn't matter since the entire post is spoiler tagged, but reddit spoiler tags do not work the same as Discord spoiler tags, and || doesn't work. You need to use >!Spoiler!< to be spoiler tagged on Reddit


EyeOfCthwooloo

Oops My bad. Havent used Reddit spoilers in a while


FlowerOnCrack

I don’t think I’ll be able to compete with others during this write up, but I’ll attempt it. From my user flair, you can probably tell who I’m putting my vote towards for this case. It’s both due to personal bias and the fact that overall, I think Mikan is slightly better done. Hiyoko, a character brimming with potential for a character arc. The character she got closest too died, and one of the people responsible was still kicking. This could’ve lead to a story long arc where she possibly forgives Fuyuhiko, or at least learns to put the past behind them. However, she’s never given that opportunity before being killed as what’s basically just a mandatory death at this point. Her character arc ended before it even truly started, which I somewhat dislike. Why set up a character for future development if they’re then proceeded to be killed? This is something I feel Mikan also does better, both due to the they never started up a character arc for her, and she was killed at what I’d consider a decent time in the story. Personality wise, I like Mikans clashing personality traits, which are centered around her backstory heavily. She’s overall a kind person who does want to help people- but also manipulative and controlling, without it making her a negative character. Her controlling nature is understandable and well explained with her free time events, explaining how she was a victim of constant ridicule and abuse throughout her childhood. If you were never given positive attention when growing up, you’d never know how to feel about any sort of positive attention thrown at you. So, to sedate that need for attention, you gain it in the only way you know how- by letting others bullying you, and hurt you- because if they ignore you, it means they truly don’t even care enough about you to bother. Being forgotten is worse then being bullied, as social contact and attention is something Mikan craves. I also think it’s fascinating how Mikan enjoys it when others are sick- less in a “I want you to hurt.” Way, and more in a “I want you to depend on me.” Way. She doesn’t want others to die and get hurt of course, but she enjoys it somewhat when they do- they’re weaker then her, and have to depend on her; which I once again can’t blame her for. She wants attention and affection- and of course, when someone’s sick, they’ll be looking to her for help and attention themselves. Regarding the third trial, I don’t fully blame Mikan for what happened. Due to both the brainwashing and Junkos manipulation of her, she wasn’t exactly the same Mikan we had come to know throughout the story before that point. While Hiyoko and Ibukis deaths were still her fault, I’m not exactly mad at her character for them. And besides, I actually like her despair state. Instead of taking the blame for everything, it ramps everything up to eleven and has her blame everyone else for her actions, as they were the ones who bullied her and were mean to her- her perception of forgiveness is warped in a different yet similar way to how it usually is for her- both times seeming like something precious and that’s controlled by others, but this time Mikan thinks she’s worthy of it- when she very obviously isn’t. While Hiyoko is solidly written, and I’d love a redemption or some sort of character arc for her- I just can’t say she’s better without that character arc happening. Sorry Hiyoko fans, but my votes going towards Mikan.


Eddie_The_White_Bear

Oh boi, trauma girls, the bully and the victim... I think this is the first time ever I'm participating in Scrum Debate, so +1 point for mods for choosing good topic. ​ Let's start with Hiyoko. She's actually master of manipulation. Using her child looks and fake crying she's able to trick people into doing what she want. But she actually suffers a lot. Her family (and enemies of her family) traumatised her. Being bully is just her defense mechanism. She's know she's weak, and she's afraid of being weak. That's why she built dominant personality. Physically she couldn't change herself, so she's figthing in mental way. Making everyone weakier. Yes, everyone. Due to her past she trust noone. She's afraid to open, pushing everyone away. Mahiru during SDR2 was the only person she actually trusted. >!That's why her death made her hiting rock bottom!< But even then she tried to control her a bit - look bath scene, when Hiyoko actually forced Mahiru to participate. ​ Mikan is like her reflection in a crooked mirror. Tall and surprisingly phisically strong (friendly reminder she was able to >!move bodies without trouble, breaking heavy things and knocking off people (Chiaki and Mitarai in DR3)!<), her mental health was broken as f\*\*k. Unlike Hiyoko, who pushed people away, Mikan was seeking for attention. All these trippings, poses, she just wanted to be in center of things, claiming it's accident. Mikan also used reversed psychology, "Please don't hate me" actually meaned "Please look at me". However, the only person who noticing it was actually Hiyoko (like I said before, she's master of manipulation, so was able to say if Mikan's "accidents" were real or not). That's why Hiyoko hated Mikan - she saw herself in her, but reversed. Instead of building strenght, Mikan intentionally made herself weaker, looking for protector. But still both are using lies and externals. ​ The next section is about DR3 anime, so I'll spoil everything. >!In the beginning of DR3, Hiyoko behaved like SDR2 Hiyoko. She was trying to look stronger than she's actually is. Infamous soup scene was it's opus magnum - "look people, I can do anything when I'm pushed and won't stop". In later episodes, she calmed down a bit. When? After growth spurt. She wasn't weak and childish anymore and while still having bully personality, she stopped a bit, because she felt like she don't need to prove anything anymore (that's totally headcanon - IMO Hiyoko's small height was her family fault, who was "poisoning" her before she left them to attend HPA, but once again it's headcanon). While still being bully, especially against Mikan (she just doesn't want to lower guard), Hiyoko was actually able to thank her in the end of DR3, what shows that bullying is only a shield, and inside her mind Mikan isn't really a pig barf and other people aren't that bad. She treat them like equal to her and once again her bullying is just to keep safe distans and let people think she's stronger. Just in case. And it's not Jabberwock Island memories what developed her character. Because she didn't had even SINGLE moment during game what could makes it. It was just inside her, but memory erasing, well, erased it!< ​ >!In the other hand, Mikan. Maybe that will be controversial - without trauma she would be mix of Teruteru and Miu. Yep, that's it. While having a low self-esteem she's actually quite obsessed with erotic things. Back to tripping etc. she knows "sex sells" and she "sell" her body for attention. There are few situations in DR3 that proves it. First of all, infamous sex soup once again and even worse Mikan's line about tip of the sword. Most of her classmates was able to stop their urge, but oh boi, she didn't want to and chosen biggest, most thick thing she noticed to do... stuff. Another scene is when Ultimate Impostor kidnapped her (if you watched, you know why). After hearing his and Mitarai's backstory she started to... undress herself, to bribe them with sex commenting it's just like the movies she used to watch. Yeah, Mikan, that's definitelly not public TV. The last scene was admittedly under Junko's hypnosion, but still, when Mikan tried to literally rape Mitarai even Junko commented what's wrong with her, that wasn't side effect of hypnosion. That was just Mikan herself!< ​ In real world Hiyoko would be indeed independent person, little rude, but hey, noone is perfect. Mikan however, needs protection. Take one thing from her and she breaks. She don't even try to fight with her demons, she even fuels them intentionally. ​ Anyway, I choose Hiyoko. For being able to fight.


DoeCommaJohn

Hiyoko for the win. A character can be strong in 4 ways: 1) Interact with other characters in an interesting way: Throughout the game, I don’t think Mikan has anybody who she would consider a friend or enemy, and she definitely doesn’t provide a foil for anybody. Hiyoko, on the other hand, has a parent-child relationship with Mahiru, who can make up for her own abandonment issues through Hiyoko. Hiyoko’s paranoia also puts her into conflict with some of the other characters, most notably Fuyuhiko. Hiyoko just brings out those around her better than Mikan. 2) Contribute to the story/theme: Mikan does a bit better at this, with the autopsies, although those are pretty redundant thanks to the MK files, and I don’t think she ever finds anything particularly important (although I could be wrong). Hiyoko helps spread paranoia and distrust, and her selfishness contributes to most of the present day mystery in 2-2, while Mikan’s softy personality made the game less intense, because she would obviously never do something bad, unless her personality was completely altered. I’ll call this a tie. 3) Unique goals: Mikan’s goal is to keep everybody safe, which is shared by basically every character in every game. Hiyoko is a bit more interesting, where her main motivation is to become self-sufficient, which drives both her hostile actions and her character development. Hiyoko easily wins. 4) Character development. Outside of Mikan’s FTEs, she doesn’t really develop. Hiyoko, on the other hand, clearly starts off believing that the best way to improve herself is by belittle those around her and close herself off, but Mahiru helps her realize that relying on others can help strengthen, rather than weaken you. Hiyoko wins again.


Shardar12

Tbf mikan was very useful in chapter 1, without her autopsy everyone would have thought that nagito was the killer and they all would have died


Full_ronpa

Definitely going for Mikan all the way. For me, the two shown two drastically different ways in how people would deal with bullying and trauma, either resorting to more violence to scare people away, preventing themselves from ever being hurt again, or do their utmost best to help others to prevent them experiencing what they had experienced, whilst I can't say one way is invaild when compared to others, what I can say is that, in my eyes, the latter is way more respectable and beloved. And which is how Mikan do things, and love her for it, despite all her trauma she kept her kindness, something I can't say Hiyoko can do. But despite Mikan being able to kept her kindness, the trauma still eroded her away, that's why she act so weird around people, constantly apologizing for the tiniest offence, falling into compromising poses, being extremely shy around people, these all stemmed from her being bullied and ignored before. And yes they might be annoying to some, and I think it is justified to a degree and she never directly hurt people with her actions. Hiyoko on the other hand is a completely different story, she verbally abuse people that she thinks are weaker than her, like Mikan and Kazuichi, brutally torture small animals, like squishing ants and even having a technique to make it more "fun" to her. Yes she suffered the same and perhaps even more than Mikan, but that doesn't justify spilling her vile over people who had done nothing bad to her, and why even only in that regard, Mikan is already miles ahead of Hiyoko. I would think that most of the spite that Mikan get, despite being annoying to some, is her actions in 2-3 and DR3, where she offs her two best friends and betray Chiaki respectively. This brings us nicely to the topic of despair Mikan. The main issue is that, due to how the story works, she is brainwashed into a ultimate despair, therefore the actions done by her despair self should be counted independently since they are technically not the same person anymore. And to think that in both situations, the sick irony is that she became despair Mikan because she wanted to help others, getting captured by Mukuro when trying to help Ryota in DR3, and getting the despair illness to save Nagito's life in 2-3 respectively, the latter of which is also why I have a bitterness against Nagito due to how he treats Mikan. In all due respect, she is just a girl constantly being in a unlucky spot in a unlucky time, and even when she's betraying Chiaki, you can see her crying and taking a lot of time to do it, and what she say when compared Chisa who is also brainwashed is clearly someone who is fighting the effects of brainwashing but ended up succumbed to it. So despite all of this, she still got all the flack she got just because her actions are shown on screen, is extremely unfair in my eyes. May I mention everybody there also got brainwashed and probably had the same if they replaced Mikan, Hiyoko included. Yes Hiyoko never done so on screen but with the story and lore taken into consideration you can't definitively say that she would never done what Mikan did in those situations and as an ultimate despair. Despite me constantly talking Hiyoko in an negative light, I do think there's one thing I like about her is her views on tradition preservation, that's probably the only time where her talents truly shines and her views are even very enlightened despite her stance in it. This part resonate quite strongly with me for someone who lives in a place where a bigger government is trying to suppress our way of life, culture and language. But in the end, this only good is not enough to cover the part of her heart that is already corrupted. So in my conclusion Mikan wins, without a doubt. If you even want to question me about my choices, have a look at DR3 hope arc, where Mikan saved Hiyoko's life, would any of you think this would happen if their roles are swapped? I think you would have a clear answer. Mikan is someone who would treat anyone with care, and when it's reciprocated, she would do her utmost best to protect it. Hiyoko in the other end shown none of this qualities, instead being a brat who verbally abuse others and kills small animals for fun.


AfroWarrior27

> ou even want to question me about my choices, have a look at DR3 hope arc, where Mikan saved Hiyoko's life, That doesn't at all make up for how awful she's been throughout most of that Anime.


Full_ronpa

and in most of anime, in the scenes that she's an importance in, she's either getting drugged, by Hiyoko may I add, and being brainwashed. And in the other scenes, she does stuff like play games with her classmates, accepting the request for taking care of Ryota, which ended up having her brainwashed and lead to one of the worst scenes in the whole anime. Yeah she's a part of it, but can you blame her? Mikan's just unlucky, she doesn't want any of this happened to her, but in the end, it was forced upon her.


AfroWarrior27

That doesn't change the fact that they chose to write her awfully throughout majority of the anime. Though it's no surprise. DR3 way of handling the DR2 cast was awful in general.


daiseyyyy

In terms of design, I feel like Mikan would be a better choice for me.However, if it was based on other factors such as personality,character development, and so on my choice would be Hiyoko.She has an interesting bond with Mahiru and her death leads up to another side of Hiyoko being revealed(while it might not be considered another side,it really shows Hiyoko can have positive emotions for people rather than just insulting them/having a snobbish attitude).On the other hand,Mikan shows no sign of this.She has no true character development or purpose.She’s just fanservice.You may argue that her killing Hiyoko is development but it’s really not,she really just had the despair disease, and that’s not even why she killed Hiyoko.She only killed Hiyoko due to her witnessing the events of Ibuki’s death.What could’ve been an interesting character with a sad backstory who was bullied and eventually killed her bully for revenge,turned into a boring fanservice character whose backstory was pretty much also fanservice.While Hiyoko was atleast interesting.With a backstory explaining her personality, along with showing the enjoyable parts about her, I think Hiyoko is worth of winning.


daiseyyyy

Please keep in mind while reading this I do not hate Mikan.In fact,she’s on my top 10 list.However I feel as if Mikan could’ve been presented in a much better way than she was. In terms of design, I feel like Mikan would be a better choice for me.However, if it was based on other factors such as personality,character development, and so on my choice would be Hiyoko.She has an interesting bond with Mahiru and her death leads up to another side of Hiyoko being revealed(while it might not be considered another side,it really shows Hiyoko can have positive emotions for people rather than just insulting them/having a snobbish attitude).On the other hand,Mikan shows no sign of this.She has no true character development or purpose.She’s just fanservice.You may argue that Mikan killing Hiyoko is development but it’s really not,she really just had the despair disease, and that’s not even why she killed Hiyoko.She only killed Hiyoko due to her witnessing the events of Ibuki’s death.What could’ve been an interesting character with a sad backstory who was bullied and eventually killed her bully for revenge,turned into a boring fanservice character whose backstory was pretty much also fanservice.While Hiyoko was atleast interesting.With a backstory explaining her personality, along with showing the enjoyable parts about her, I think Hiyoko Saionji is worth of winning.


Marie-Anne-0705

To be honest... I'll choose Hiyoko Saionji. Okay, look. While I do feel bad for Mikan because of the horrible things she went through, I just hate her fanservice stuff. She's indeed a lovable character (I must admit) and that I don't hate her, but her fanservice scenes made me so uncomfortable. >!It also made me disappointed that once she got the Despair Disease (turning out to be Remembering Disease), Mikan considers Junko as her beloved, even though it's really obvious that she's brainwashed by Junko herself.!< As for Hiyoko, her bullying towards Mikan will always be unacceptable, but the backstory behind her bullying also made me feel bad for her. I love her interactions with Mahiru, with Hiyoko considering Mahiru as her big sister. Whether she's important or not, she deserves more character development. She's almost there for getting her character development, >!but it makes me sad that she died before she gets that chance.!< Sorry if this is a bit short. I may not be that good on making a longer analysis, but I tried my best to make some explanations.


Numbcargo

hiyoko, and it's not even close. i always put my personal bias aside from analyzing characters, so even though mikan is probably my least favorite character in the franchise, i think objectively she is a pretty well-written character. however, i think hiyoko was much much better. i went into dr2 with the idea that everyone loved mikan and hated hiyoko, and when i saw their characters, i started to disagree with the notion more and more. first of all, hiyoko showed a side of being human that isn't too often shown in danganronpa, and it's lying when you have nothing to hide. in the first two chapters, mikan came across as annoying and a tad manipulative, while hiyoko just seemed to be a bully-type that just made fun of everyone for her own amusement. 2-2 really changed this for me. showing hiyoko's fear when finding out her best friend is dead and then her fear that everyone will suspect her was so interesting to see. even though she's completely innocent, she thought that everyone would think she killed her best and only friend. so she started lying as a defense mechanism and complicated the trial with her innate fear of being suspected for this case. it was such a sad situation to watch, seeing her have no easy way out of being suspected of killing the only person she felt accepted by. the second trial really sold her character for me, and gave her a lot of depth that felt human but so thematically excellent at the same time. i think adding on to this cruelty by having mikan kill her in the direct next chapter, just when she was starting to open up to everyone, was what really made it clear how tragically well-written her character is. i think having her killed as soon as she started developing is such a genius move that made her differ from the path of a textbook bully-to-good-person storyline. she was a character that had trouble feeling comfortable around people, found one person she could trust, and then that person got killed, AND on top of that before she could even process it she already knew she was going to be suspected for it. and then after getting through it with everyone's help, she was killed for nothing the next chapter, preventing her from making any more meaningful relationships. the direction her character took really made her stand out to me as a unique one, and she's an excellently written character. mikan is interesting from a psychological perspective, being bullied and abused so badly that she's become hypersexual and over-apologetic, the latter being mostly on purpose. however, despite the good foundation of her character, what sets her below hiyoko for me is her lack of development or impact, even at her death. her character was just exploited by junko twice, which in itself is telling of her past and backstory, but that in itself cannot compare to hiyoko's tragic development throughout the games.


Funny_Insult_Banana

well Im not that good at ya know, writing a lot of shit like this but I feel obliged as a Hiyoko simp to throw my hat in the ring so here we go My vote goes for Hiyoko if you couldnt tell already. Overall I love Hiyoko's character which may come as a surprise to some people but I do, I found most of the lines she said during DR2 to be really funny and in all made my experience with the game 10X better! My liking of Hiyoko was further exuded by the fact I disliked Mikan from the beginning. (though I dont really dislike any characters anymore) To me, Mikan was just a fan service character who would just be clumsy and fall around to give the player a "nice experience". Now being horny ol me I actually did Mikans FTES first but this didnt really change my opinion on her. I can obviously see the attraction people would have towards the nurse but I honestly find her just a bit annoying. In terms of backstory, though both are terrible to have gone through, I do believe they are pretty close in comparison so I couldnt say which I consider worse. Mikans upbringing was something no one should ever have to go through, being physically abused, burned with cigarettes, forced to strip and worse which is horrible and obvious mentally effected her for the rest of her life. Due to her receiving many wounds and other injuries, she learned to fix her self up which led to her interest in nursing. Many people IRL have sadly had to go through upbrings like this which could lead to a more relatability towards her too. Hiyoko's though is terrible too, being born into the Saionji clan and being the heiress gave Hiyoko a very high status, this status made many people jealous of the little banana and many assassinations were attempted on her as a result. In her family, her father was the only person who she cared about as he would watch her dance and truly care about her more than others in her family though there relationship was sadly cut short by her grandmother as she was taken away by her to receive a stricter and more traditional upbringing. Due to these attempted assassinations and without her father, she had no one she could trust which led her to having he personality we know her for having now, the kind to push away others and not trust them out of fear that she would be killed. (sorry that theres more backstory here for Hiyoko I just dont know Mikans too well) Now there is an obvious dislike towards Hiyoko as she bullies Mikan and hating for that reason is pretty justifiable but Hiyoko just doesnt know any better, she wasnt raised with the knowledge of how to properly respect someone as no one would properly respect her, this is where Hiyoko has her liking towards Mahiru and Hajime (more in Island mode), Mahiru was the first person to stand up for Hiyoko when she couldnt take a shower leading her to be one of Hiyoko's first and only friends. Through FTEs and Island mode, she warms up to Hajime as we learn Hajime reminds her a lot of her father and, as with her father, wishes to protect him as she says "I won't be able to protect anyone if I cry... Including my father, and you too." (which is one reason I ship it you should check it out) Though there is less hate for Mikan than there is Hiyoko, it stems from her clumsiness and fan service. Aside from the obvious tropes between her and Hiyoko, Mikan does not interact with many outside of Ibuki and Hajime as she is much more of a timid nature (due to her upbringing) but I believe her character shouldnt be judged to harshly for this. Mikan at times can be annoying for her constant apologizing and falling but this is where I feel Hiyoko has more of an edge on her, (in my opinion anyway) I dont really see much to her other than this. Hiyoko has her reasons for pushing away people and Mikan has reasons for being how she is, but theres just more there in Hiyoko's personality to me than there is Mikans. Theres more comedy in the things she says rather than just feeling bad for Mikan every time she speaks. When I play video games, I play to have fun. have a laugh not just feel bad for a fictional character all the time its just not enjoyable to me. Now I know others would feel the opposite in this regard and feel the need to hear everything there is to hear from her so you can make her feel better but thats just boring to me. In conclusion, I generally prefer Hiyokos backstory, personality, humor and most other aspects to Mikans but that doesnt make her a bad character, just to me shes not exatly the most enjoyable type. Sorry if this isnt that good its my first time writing something like this so theres probably some things wrong about it


Apple_gun

Hoo boy, if this isn't the matchup i've been waiting for First and foremost, **my vote goes to Mikan**. She instantly piqued my interest with her introduction, not only because i was curious how she got to where she was, but the issues that were visible on the surface alone were a little too relatable for my high school self: always having that imp in your head who tells you that you're doing everything wrong and you're only ever wanted by other people because you're useful and not much else, despite having it quite good. Naturally, she's the first character whose FTEs i've maxed out by Ch2, but *god damn*, what i saw there was soul crushing. The only issue i have with the FTEs is that the writing sometimes tries a little too hard to make the player sympathise with her, however this is a very minor issue, imo. I'll be quite honest here: i've dealt with high school bullies myself, and if there's one thing i've picked up from the experience is that *they don't need a good reason to bully others, other than you being a soft individual, and they will not stop until you push back against it.* Mikan, unfortunately, lacks the strength to do so, especially since her home life wasn't a piece of candy either. This being her daily life created a very messed up and self destructive mindset: *"I am not needed for others when i'm not nursing anyone, I will debase myself if it means getting any sort of attention to get myself off of that feeling"*. Of course, this is exploited and it only leads her further to the rock bottom of her own self-esteem. She desperately needs someone who will not find her existence a nuisiance or a mistake: because she genuinely believes that it's the case, she constantly apologizes for it. That's why she latches onto anyone who, in her eyes, have forgiven her for that: Hajime and >!Junko!<. That's why she enjoys nursing people - not because she likes to do whatever she wants to her patients, but because she wants to feel that she's calling the shots right now. She is never malicious about it, Akane and Fuyuhiko being proof of that. I will get to Hiyoko in a little bit, but what i want to address is the fanservice. I really wanna put the brackets on the term in this context, because I've never found it enjoyable - in fact, before i finshed her events i was actively looking for ways to connect the first two major trips to Teruteru, because i was convinced that it was him setting her up like that, so i guess the fanservice only boosted my protective instincts. Her antics >!being the major plot point during the first trial!< was quite welcome, because usually these moments don't have any purpose to them other than just being there. One last thing i'd like to add to the topic is that the presentation of the fanservice offers another perspective on the trope associated to it: only someone with deep mental issues would do that deliberately and it's absolutely not enjoyable in this context. Mikan wanted to be acknowledgled by any means necessary, but >!once the final pillar of her support in Ch3, Akane, has given up, she snaps. Hard. She would eventually snap even without the Despair Disease affecting her, because people kept either walking all over her or ignoring her entirely. But with the disease, it's even more heartwrenching: her partners in crime turn their backs on her and suddenly she realizes that she has nothing left for her in the world - Junko is already dead. Seeing someone so sweet and caring being reduced to the completely unstable killer, for reasons she could not control... yea, it's safe to say i didn't take that chapter well. Especially because Ibuki was my second favourite character in the game.!< **With that out of the way, let's talk about Hiyoko.** Prior to me playing the game, I've heard my friends discussing her. Of course, it wasn't about how good she is. Introduction? Fine, we had Byakuya in the last game, I can deal with that. I actually tried to do her events during Ch1, however the time was eventually split between Ibuki and Mikan, so by the time i got to Ch2, my impression of her changed to worse when she's still allowed to do and say whatever she wants with barely any repercussions. But, when this debate was announced, i decided to boot up the game and do her events in the Island Mode - I usually don't bother looking up FTEs i haven't done yet, so most of the information i know comes from other people discussing it (still don't know Sonia's KEKW). Hiyoko is, essentially, no different than Mikan: family pressure, bullying for being who you are (being a member of the known family in her case), ugly bastards being her audience with all the nasty stuff they bring - it's all there. What's different is how what she takes from it: she grows spikes and stops caring about who's gonna run into them. Deep down she's still the same vulnerable girl, who will cherish anyone that's gonna be caring and gentle with her despite all her flaws. That person is Mahiru, who is acting like her mother figure - and we know how much Hiyoko loves her father, too, so of course she's the person Hiyoko is genuinely nice to. The thing that stops me from liking Hiyoko (and, by extension, Mahiru) is the fact that she's never called out on her behaviour, and that sense of freedom and protection *on top* of her sense of superiority only enables her to be rude to everybody else, essentially taking Mahiru for granted. >!That comes back to bite her when Mahiru gets bonked a little too hard!< and she finally starts making attempts to open up to others. And if the player is still convinced that she's the devil spawn, she forgives Fuyuhiko after he >!opens himself up, in a way!<, even if she doesn't wanna admit it - she wouldn't have come to Ibuki's concert while he was there if she didn't believe his extreme apology was sincere. That, in my opinion, is the highest positive leap her personality has taken (she also liked Ibuki's music - which one of us didn't?), and i think it'd be really interesting to see her growth, >!had Mikan not switched to battle medic and offed two people, including Hiyoko.!< Still, with what the game has to offer about her in the base game, i find it really hard to resonate with her, as up until the start of her character development she posesses two traits that i absolutely despise in RL people, too - total lack of self awareness combined with targeted malice. Had she toned that down even more than she did during Ch3, she would have been an okay character in my eyes, as that'd show that she's willing to take a good look at herself - [DR3 SPOILERS]>!by the time I watched Hope Arc it was too little and too late!<. Honestly, there’s a lot I would like to write about both of these characters, but I won’t make the wall of text bigger than it already is, and I’m not quite willing to answer to replies either, not at the moment – I will read them tho. So, as I said in the beginning, **Mikan gets my vote**. Hiyoko is capable of turning herself around – for better or worse, doesn’t matter. Mikan, however, lacks that strength, and whatever changes in her mind that could have been, are dependent on others – and there hasn’t been much good examples of it, except Hajime. She’s in desperate need of protection from harm, and as someone who has felt the same way many years ago, she earns my sympathy. Biased, I know, but there’s no decision to be made without even a little bit of it. I also apologize for "watery" analysis of both characters, in case someone is annoyed by it. I'll look over the text once again, in case there's formatting issues.


tommygun1945

Hiyoko I'm someone who when they first played SDR2 had Mikan as their favorite character and Hiyoko as their least, a year and a half on, and i think my opinion has changed but not swapped, i still love Mikan and find her endearing and well written. But Hiyoko is a far more complex and interesting character for me, like she's a perfectly morally balanced character. She's an abrasive bitchy loud mouth but i think she lies a lot about the extent of her cruelty(like the animal thing) but this is balanced out by her genuinely great features, she is level headed, intelligent, and loyal with a strong hatred for murder, her love for Mahiru was very pure and for me, I've never agreed with anyone in the series as much as i agreed with Hiyoko during her speech to Fuyuhiko about him causing her death, some call her harsh for this but as someone who loves Fuyuhiko, she was right, he didn't show any remorse up until that point, for all of Hiyoko's flaws, she was genuinely and righteously disgusted at Fuyuhiko. But she still forgave him. Also she's sassy and funny as fuck. Overall while i love both Hiyoko is far better IMO


darkcrusaderares

Ultimately, my vote will go to **Mikan,** but let’s look over them both. The first thing that stands out to me is that I really love how both of their talents were utilised in their personalities. There’s not much room for traditional dancing to be used in a killing game, but I like how it came up in Hiyoko’s FTE’s. She says some borderline xenophobic comments at times (usually at Sonia,) but it all stems from the realisation that traditional dancing’s audience is niche enough as it is, and it’s only shrinking as the world becomes more interconnected, and cultures lose their unique ideas and practices. Not easily understood, dwindling popularity, in need of preservation/protection; it was a clever metaphor for Hiyoko herself. As for Mikan, she’s become my go to example for why I love Danganronpa’s philosophy on character writing. You hear the Ultimate Nurse (or Health Committee Member?) and you probably assume she’s someone who hates to see others hurt, or just wants to see people smile etc. But no, Kodaka thought just that *little bit* out of the box to make something more interesting. Everyone gets sick, everyone gets injured. There will always be a need for people with a career in medicine. Let’s make a character who *needs* acknowledgement, that craves being depended upon. And they managed to achieve all of that with a talent that’s astronomically useful in a killing game. Mikan could’ve been completely useless in the non-stop debates, and she would’ve already paid her dues through her autopsies. This idea goes hand-in-hand with Mikan’s fanservice; the story alludes to it being intentional on Mikan’s part, because she truly believes that any attention is better than being ignored. So, she’ll humiliate and debase herself even if she doesn’t like it. And yes, it’s meant to be uncomfortable. Hajime’s probably his most emotionally involved in Mikan’s FTE’s than any other, because it was a journey for both of them to figure out how to talk to one another. Fanservice is so regularly just a tacked-on trait for either comedy or titillation, and for once some actual thought and purpose was put behind it. Meanwhile, Hiyoko’s background has instilled in her a sense of superiority. The Saionji clan is to be respected and revered, she calls Hajime her slave/servant in her FTE’s. It’s an attitude that can easily ruffle some feathers, but it has its silver lining. Those that Hiyoko does care about are treasured by her, and in the Island Mode ending, she says a master has responsibilities for their servants. At times, I wish Hiyoko had a Toko to her Byakuya; not a friend, but someone who actually looked up to Hiyoko in this way just so we could see what these responsibilities would look like. However, the deciding factor for me is the roles these two played in the main story. For Mikan, outside of the autopsies, that doesn’t really exist until chapter 3. And I know chapter 3 is panned, for some reasons I agree with and some I don’t, but it’s not devoid of all quality. Mikan catching the despair disease is one of the most tragic outcomes in the series, she spent the whole chapter working herself to the bone, first looking after Fuyuhiko and then all the patients. She put herself in the most dangerous position by having the most contact with the patients, but the alternative was never even considered by anyone else, it was just accepted that this is how things have to be. She truly had no chance of avoiding this disease. And Mikan’s ‘true’ self was effective for what it was. With her already established issues with dependency, it’s not so unreasonable that in the span of two years, she would grow so obsessed with someone to the extent of killing for them. And I know that people are saying it’s bad, because any student would’ve reacted the way Mikan did if they got the remembering disease, so the motive isn’t really *hers.* And that’s true, but we didn’t know that back then. Sometimes, just the order of events and you how you communicate information to the audience is itself good writing. Despair Mikan was effectively horrifying but felt uniquely organic for the timespan it needed to. Hiyoko is…more complicated. I’ve long felt they had too *many* ideas for what character she can be, what role she can serve. And tried to incorporate all of them, but in doing so they stretched the resource of her screen time way too thinly, and the result is that a lot of these ideas feel unfinished. That thing about ‘a master has responsibilities for their servant’ sounds interesting, but nothing came of it. She made a memorial for Mahiru, but that felt more like she was acting as Mahiru’s ‘friend’ not ‘master’. Her concerns that traditional Japanese culture is being eroded just…doesn’t come up in the main story. She starts chapter 2 lecturing the others for grieving Teruteru’s loss when he planned to kill them all. She made it clear that she believes murder is wrong no matter the motives. Barely anyone gets to engage with her on this topic before it shifts to something else. Sure, she continues to resent Fuyuhiko when the others didn’t, but she was going to do that regardless of her moral code; Mahiru was the victim of Fuyuhiko’s plot. You’d think it’d mean something when she learns that Mahiru tried to help her friend get away with murder, but…nope. She reacts with denial, and then eventually a begrudging acceptance, but it had no impact on how she felt about Mahiru. Speaking of Mahiru…I just felt like this dynamic was too rushed for me to get invested in it. Hiyoko, a girl who openly believes people are just nice to her because of her standing in the Saionji clan and want something from her, and who regularly pushes people away (even though in her introduction she *invited* Hajime to play with her, and only acted antagonistic towards him when he refused?) instantly formed a friendship with Mahiru because she stuck up for her once…that just feels to forced to me. I know some say it’s because Mahiru offered her independence, by teaching her how to tie her kimono, but you’re telling me none of these clout chasers in the Saionji clan thought to butter Hiyoko up with gifts or offers like this? Sorry, but I feel like they just had to suspend Hiyoko’s scepticism and cynicism to make this friendship work. If Kira Buckland didn’t kill it with the vocal performance for Hiyoko’s grief, I truly wouldn’t be able to take any of this seriously. I feel like if they’d been more frugal about this, and focused on one or two of these ideas, and cut out the rest, my vote would go in the other direction. But as it stands, Hiyoko comes across as a character with plenty of potential, but disjointed execution. Mikan had a lot less going on, but I think they pulled all of it off to a reasonable satisfaction.


tommygun1945

No Mahiru and Hiyoko's relationship is not forced, what you need to realise is that prior to hope's peak Hiyoko didn't have a single friend and everyone in her life treated her like shit, so of course it makes sense that someone as genuine and friendly as Mahiru would be someone Hiyoko would fall for easily, and unlike Kuzupeko that comes out of nowhere soapies at least had some build up.


darkcrusaderares

1. I said 'this dynamic is too rushed *for me.*' Just saying, 'no, it's not' isn't constructive. 2. The bulk of my comments about Hiyoko came from we learn from her FTE's...I *know* what her life was like before Hope's Peak. 3. My stance is *how* does Hiyoko know Mahiru is genuine? Hiyoko is openly hostile to people even before they do anything wrong to her, because she's been burned so many times in the past. The start of the chapter 2 scene is the first time I can recall them really interacting with each other. She's known her for about 4 days. I don't buy that that's a good enough set-up to overcome the walls Hiyoko put around herself. You don't have to agree, but if you're going to refute it, please give me another angle to view it from. (Also, Kuzupeko knew each other since they were kids, plenty of build up. I'm not talking about the order the player learns things, I'm talking about the chronological order in-universe...not to mention if we *were* talking about the order the player learns things, they may never do Hiyoko's FTE's, in which case the reason you gave for them becoming friends would never be made apparent.)


tommygun1945

She's openly hostile mainly to Soda and Mikan, two people who are quite well known for putting on a somewhat fake personality(Mikan is genuinely nice but she knows what she's doing when she trips up and also has a strange love of control, Soda pretends to be tough when he's evidently a coward), Hiyoko is good at reading others and after all Mahiru's biggest strength and biggest weakness is a bit too open and eager to help others, both FTE's and main story heavily imply Hiyoko both dislikes fake people and never had a friend. You can see the build up throughout 2-2, with Hiyoko getting more and more infatuated with Mahiru only for everyone's favorite pure uwu gangsta couple that did nothing wrong because they had a sad moment at the end of the trial to senselessly beat Mahiru to death and frame Hiyoko for it, and to me that's a lot sadder than what happened to Kuzupeko because while they knew each other for longer, their downfall came because they hurt an innocent girl who did nothing to hurt them, who was trying to make things right. Oh but Fuyuhiko and Peko crying for each other instead of the girls life they stole cruelly makes everything alright, i love Kuzupeko but i am so sick and tired with the fanbase acting like the fact that they loved each other just cures what they did to Mahiru. Look at the memorial scene, Hiyoko wasn't exactly good at expressing her emotions but there's a genuine feel to her "i want her to know she's not alone, even if she's in heaven", that line alone is very realistic and telling, she saw Mahiru as someone who was the opposite of her, someone she wished she could be, pure, innocent, caring and selfless.


swiftsylvan

Always enjoy reading your posts, as usual this is excellent.


Negihu

That was a great read. You gave a fair shot to both sides here, so that motivates me to share some thoughts about the Hiyoko parts you found questionable: > instantly formed a friendship with Mahiru because she stuck up for her once… I have seen this claim brought up a few times before - that Hiyoko befriended Mahiru because Mahiru stuck up for her - but I don't think the game offers much to support this notion. Hiyoko did not react or even acknowledge her at all when Mahiru called out the rude comments that had been made about her smell. Neither did she ever bring it up later to thank her. The closest I could find to any sort of acknowledgement was her saying she wanted to shower quickly so that she doesn't get bullied again. By all accounts Hiyoko simply did not care greatly about the fact that Mahiru stuck up for her - indeed, even when Hiyoko repeatedly brought up [why she liked Mahiru](https://i.imgur.com/CwZJj44.jpg) after losing her, the [only thing she focused on](https://i.imgur.com/12dZepw.jpg) was the fact that [Mahiru taught her how to tie her kimono,](https://i.imgur.com/YAXGHln.jpg) which makes it seem clear to me that what actually mattered to Hiyoko was the second option you mentioned: > some say it’s because Mahiru offered her independence, by teaching her how to tie her kimono This is what I think matches up best, based on Hiyoko's behavior and dialogue. In the beginning of chapter 3, we see Hiyoko - in a rare moment of emotional honesty - express that she [feels inept](https://i.imgur.com/xnDT6r9.jpg) doing almost everything. With what we learn in her FTEs, it appears that she is being [groomed by her grandmother](https://i.imgur.com/dfw95m0.jpg) to focus only on being a dancer as per family tradition, and has all her other needs [taken care of](https://i.imgur.com/evz6VDf.jpg). Ever since she was taken from her father, she had never been given the opportunity to learn anything unnecessary to her role, so it seems likely to me that Mahiru suddenly offering to do so was a first for her. > but you’re telling me none of these clout chasers in the Saionji clan thought to butter Hiyoko up with gifts or offers like this? Mahiru's offer, to me, sounds like the opposite of what the schmoozers looking to manipulate her would do: why teach her to do something so she doesn't need you anymore instead of doing it for her so that she may continue rely on you in the future? We even see Mahiru offer at first to simply help her tie it, and Hiyoko seemed cautiously receptive, [wondering](https://i.imgur.com/C8ThoAR.jpg) if she was being genuine. Now it seems likely that she would have accepted any help at this point, even if reluctantly and except perhaps from Mikan, but what really flipped her mood was Mahiru following up by promising to teach her *how*, without being asked or prompted to. That demonstrated Mahiru's honest motivations more directly than anything elss she could have done or said, and [that is when Hiyoko latched onto her.](https://i.imgur.com/Lhucd4n.jpg) When I look at it from Hiyoko's perspective, who had just received a harsh reminder of how incapable she was, having been brought to tears from feeling attacked over something out of her control, I imagine that Mahiru saying she'd help her take that control back must have looked an awful lot like salvation. TL;DR: I would say that the fact that Mahiru showed that she *didn't* want Hiyoko to rely on her is exactly why Hiyoko considered her so reliable, and I think Hiyoko's backstory strongly suggests that she never had anybody act like that in her life before. For this reason, rather than bending Hiyoko's characterization in any way, I took it more as her characterization demanding that she befriend Mahiru in the manner she did.


darkcrusaderares

Honestly, thanks so much. Considering the first response I got from this was being told I'm objectively wrong for expressing an opinion, despite the praise I also gave the character, I've been reconsidering if it's even worth trying to be diplomatic in these debates if people are just going to harass me anyway for voting differently to them. In a one-on-one scenario, yes, doing a favour for Hiyoko instead of teaching her how to do it herself would make her dependent on you, and would be, objectively a better decision. But we don't know enough about the Saionji clan to know if they would all make the best decision. Also, if they *all* made the best decision, then they all end up currying the same amount of favour, right? Wouldn't someone try a less efficient approach just to be different and maybe win more favour? Like "the first one's free" in a free-to-play game; it's a small sacrifice early on, but it builds that rapport. Honestly, looking back, I may have completely imagined this idea of people in the Saionji clan vying for favour. I can't find any quotes to support it now, and am convinced I got my fictional Japanese clans mixed up. One thing I should've emphasized better about my disbelief behind the independence theory, is that in this scene, the breakfast scene, Mahiru's offer is still just that; an offer. I don't doubt that Mahiru kept her word (or tried to at least, given she still can't tie it in chapter 3,) but Hiyoko grows attached to Mahiru following this immediately, before anything has come of it. It just...doesn't mesh well to me with the impression Hiyoko gives off of being very cynical of others, and being sensitive to deception. I've encounter two possible justifications: 1. "Hiyoko's a good judge of character and knew Mahiru's offer was genuine." But Hiyoko's sense of judgment seems pretty selective and if she *is* such a good judge of character, why is she ever worried about being betrayed? 2. "Hiyoko genuinely hasn't encountered kindness like this before, from anyone but her father." Most of the other members of the cast are kind to her, though. I guess this is negated by her saying they're weird? (she did say Mahiru wasn't weird like everyone else.) It would explain why she can bond with Hajime in her FTE's, since he's pretty normal too. Ultimately, it suggests that nobody has been kind to her in the Saionji clan, but I just don't think that's a realistic outcome. All this talk about how she'll look after her father, or her "slaves", surely someone so far down the line of ever replacing her as the head of the clan must realize they're better off befriending her, then antagonizing her?


Anxious-One123

does anyone actually like Hiyoko


ArcticFox19

a ton of people dislike Mikan too and will vote Hiyoko because she's slightly better written


Anxious-One123

mood


Color901

Both are hated by many people because some of there personality traits on both sides are quite unfavorable to many


Anxious-One123

Indeed. I liked Mikan up until her class trial. But I find Hiyoko like a little TOO mean. A lot of characters in this game are sassy af but Hiyoko is just that with no real redeeming factors, so I don't have anything to really like


tommygun1945

"No real redeeming features" Didn't murder anyone, called out Soda, and more importantly called out Kuzupeko for what they did to Mahiru, was level headed and intelligent, wanted to protect Mahiru and Hajime(free time), she's got a lot more redeeming features than a lot of fan favorites(COUGH COUGH KOKICHI)


Tsuyutime

Hi, yes you’re looking for me? I love her!


Anxious-One123

Mood, why though?


Tsuyutime

I just feel like the only reason anyone doesn’t like her is because they gets defensive with mikan shes a cute fun character that’s hated because of the way she acts towards one person


Anxious-One123

It really doesn't make Hiyoko look good though, you got to admit. Like if I showed you a scene with Byakuya telling Toko to kill herself for being an ugly cow, like, its understandable to not like him right? It was a significant amount of Hiyoko and her screentime too. It's not just one person too, its EVERYONE


Lizzie-Afton-UwU

Yes, and I kin Mikan


Anxious-One123

why?


Lizzie-Afton-UwU

I've been bullied a lot, have low self-esteem, is a crybaby etc., so I kin Mikan. But I do like Hiyoko's character, with her backstory and the fact that she was willing to change after Chapter 2.


Anxious-One123

That's a rare bird, someone who likes hiyoko AND mikan, cheers


Lizzie-Afton-UwU

I think both of them have sad backstories and real potential to be good characters,


Chihiro_Stan

Me


the2thomasklu8

Mikan Tsumiki is my favourite character in the franchise, I vote for her for a few reasons. Her backstory allows us an insight as to the origin of her fragile personailty and desire to make friends. We know that she has seemed to find a place with some of the other students in her class in the past, even though it unfortunately didn't end well. While she may seem like little more than a fanservice character to most people, I personally think that her free time events, for reasons discussed earlier, allow Mikan to grow on us as a character. She also gets quite a few stages of character development throughout the story. Hiyoko's development on the other hand, abruptly stops about halfway through the game. Now, I will admit that Mikan's trial was the worst in the franchise, but I personally think that her school mode interactions and ending more than make up for that. The impression I'm left with of Mikan is that she's a character who I want to give a hug. My vote goes to Mikan. (Sorry if this is a bit careless. I have a bit of a headache.)


Kaboio

Listen. At the end of the day, I care most about personality, and I’ll take caring but timid Mikan over the insult machine that can’t takes its own medicine Hiyoko any day. Sorry Hiyoko fans. (Don’t read the following comments if you haven’t finished DR2, we get into heavy spoiler territory.)


AfroWarrior27

But Mikan personality is pretty awful as well. It's just not out in the opens like Hiyoko's.


Kaboio

Assuming you’re talking about her attention tactics (there may be something else but I haven’t done any deep character dives for the two), I don’t think it’s nearly as bad as Hiyoko’s bullying. Mikan is trying to get attention through her manipulation because she doesn’t want to be alone or forgotten, and Hiyoko is mean because… she wants to keep people away? I think? I know that her name apparently attracts trouble, and she was separated from her parents, but I don’t see how this translates to her just being really mean to people and killing small animals. She could just as easily try her best not to be noticed (this is assuming I understand her backstory and reasons, like I said, I haven’t done a deep dive into her character).


AfroWarrior27

Mikan literally said she’s like to be a nurse because she has power over people weaker than her. That’s pretty shitty.


Kaboio

Fair. But it’s not actively hurting anyone. Unlike Hiyoko’s bullying.


AfroWarrior27

Mikan wanted to injure Hajime to keep him. There’s also the fact that she killed two people.


Kaboio

A) I know nothing about the injuring Hajime part, but that is bad if it’s true. B) This one is unfair because anyone in DR2 who got the memory disease would’ve killed people. As for Hiyoko, she suggests the people who are sick should off themselves so nobody else does. And she’s killed countless ants and crabs.


AfroWarrior27

Pretty sure killing two people is worse than Killing some crabs and insect.


Kaboio

It is. But Mikan had no control when she did it. If Hiyoko had gotten the memory disease, she would’ve killed as well. So Mikan only killed once she was turned back into a remnant of despair, and Hiyoko as her normal self killed animals for fun.


AfroWarrior27

The only thing the memory disease does is made her remember she’s an awful person. No brainwashing was involved in that regards. She is without a doubt had full control of her actions if all that happens is that her amnesia was cured. And I’m not going to buy you honestly putting killing insects and a crabs on the same level of anything horrible thing Mikan did.


AfroWarrior27

**Hiyoko Saionji** without a doubt. But I really find Hiyoko to be amusing as a character! Some of the crazy shit she says tend to be really funny. It's hilarious how much of a deplorable brat she is because I believe that was honestly suppose to be the point of her character. Her antic are in all honesty not meant to be taken that seriously. I also find it really strange that some people view her as a spawn of Satan for killing what? Insects and Crabs? When their more willing to forgive characters that have done far more worst thing. I also feel that some people can be unreasonable to her when it comes to certain things she does, like her being rightfully angry at Fuyuhiko for his action in Chapter 2, where he not only is responsible for Mahiru's death but try to pin her for it when she was really close to her. It's like how is she in the wrong for calling him out on that? I even got into some intense debate and receive massive amounts of downvotes for defending this character before. But Hiyoko a really funny character to me, she could have easily been better had the story not axed her off for incredibly dumb reasons, but I overall felt she was way more consistent as character compared to whatever the hell they did with Mikan. **Mikan Tsumiki** with all her annoying time ranting "forgive me" I honestly won't be able to forgive her. Her reasons for being the blackened is incredibly dumb, she really just like an exaggerated caricature of the Shrinking Violent. I felt they tended to go way over board with with her constant stammering and the whole victim's complex constantly saying "not to hate her" or "Forgive Me" it felt really overboard. It's not like i'm against this type of character. Chihiro and Toko did it far better. Those two it felt more genuine and unique to their character and more realistic for lack of better words. With Mikan, it felt like they we're following an archetype. There's also that annoying running gag with her tripping that I didn't like either. Which get to my other issues with her. Her gross fanservice. Which even goes up to her executions which she also has the worse one in the entire series. And good lord that whole despair disease nonsense. That was really dumb. Like a disease to remember your memory? That did felt like a half baked attempt to foreshadow the whole Ultimate Despair reveal. Her willingness to do an autopsy of her dead friends in the first two chapter is respectable as she proved to be very essential in the first two class trials and her murder scheme was also very incredible and way better than what Celeste did during the first game’s chapter three. And her class trial was good. But their several things about her that I have issues with so.....yeah. And than there's her horrid portrayal in Danganronpa 3. Lord that was awful. **Hiyoko** easily. She far more consistent and is better written, but sadly a case of lost potential. Whereas Mikan just has abysmal writing all around.


WaifuLoverThrowaway

I believe that hiyoko died too early as she was starting to become a nicer person after dealing with a death of a close one But also even though Mikan is mainly seen as a fan service character she did have a back story that was interesting and it really made you feel bad for her but her execution is still probably one of the worst as it was just stupid and fan servicey As much as I think hiyoko should of survived, Mikan gets my vote as she is still one of my favourite characters and was more interesting storywise in my opinion


Shardar12

This is a pretty easy one for me, Mikan. I'll try to tackle every point individualy Both of them have some pretty traumatic backstories that affect the characters greatly.Mikan was abused by both her family and her classmates constantly and its why she's so paranoid of anyone she meets and then we have hiyoko who was a target of assassination throughout most of her life which is why she doesnt trust anyone and also why she treats everyone like trash. I like both of their backstories but i dont like how Hiyoko's is only mentioned in her FTEs, in the main story you dont get any hints to what her backstory is, you dont get any explanation as to why she's so mean to everyone which leads to her being kinda shallow if you only take the main story into account, at least mikan's backstory is hinted at constantly and her FTEs only *enhance* her backstory and not *make it* unlike hiyoko. Both of them also serve a pretty important role in the story.Mikan's autopsies are pretty useful in both chapter 1 and 2, in chapter 1 her autopsy is used to prove that nagito isnt the killer and in chapter 2 its used to prove that the victim died immediatly and that someone moved the body and in chapter 3 mikan takes care of fuyuhiko and all the people infected with the contrived disease. Now, hiyoko's role is to be absolutely useless and then dying... alright to be fair she did befriend mahiru who was the victim of chapter 2 and she played a big part in that chapter since she was framed for her murder and in chapter 3 she goes through a character arc but overall id say that hiyoko adds far less to the story and trials than mikan does, her banter is pretty fun tho. ...So, lets get chapter 3 outta the way, this chapter is probably my least favorite chapter in the series but ill save my complaints for another post.I like the ideas that they had with mikan in chapter 3, she foreshadows the plot twist of the game by going back to her old despair obsessed self, she hints at junko having something to do with her and possibly the rest of the cast since its pretty obvious that she's her beloved and her breakdown adds a good bit of depth to the character since we get to see her at her absolute worst... my only real problem is the despair disease itself and how contrived of a motive it is and that mikan is >!like with almost every other killer/victim tbh lol!< quickly forgotten and none of the things she said are ever brough up again even though all of it is so important to the plot. Hiyoko in chapter 3 is the definition of wasted potential, i get what they were trying to do, they wanted to have a character whos biggest tragedy was that they didnt get to have a character arc since hiyoko tries to become a better person throughout chapter 3 but when nekomaru sacrifices himself to save akane hiyoko goes back to her old bitter and distrustful self which then leads to her trying to do everything by herself which is why she became a vitcim and this is all well and good but the problem is that her death doesnt have any impact, she doesnt have any effect on the main story other than being just another victim, none of the characters give a shit about her dying other than sonia and she only cares because she feels responsible for her death and her death is quickly forgotten and overshadowed by ibukis death... it just feels so rushed, so dissapointing and adds virtually nothing to the plot. Overall, i just think that mikan had a far greater impact on the plot and was a more interesting character which is why im siding with her.If you disagree with me thats fine after all, all of this is just my opinion.oh, and also, sorry for any grammar mistakes that you may have found in this post, english isnt my native language so im bound to fuck up at some point lol


The-Crystal-Wolf

So, my vote is to Mikan. *I'm not going to make this a simp post.* Her autopsies were fairly useful in chapters 1 and 2. (Chapter 1 actually wouldn't been solvable without Mikan, now that I think about it.) Her personality, even though it may be annoying, is better than Hiyoko's in my opinion. I would rather take Mikan's quiet and caring personality over Hiyoko's elementary school bully personality. (I acknowledge Hiyoko's personality is because of poor living situations and bad family.) And her breakdown in chapter 3 was amazing. The VA's work was very well done, and it can give me chills still. That's really all I have to say. Thank you for reading this. (*if you even care to read it...*)


LilMafs

Hiyoko because she grew, both physically and psychologically. Also her ultimate talent is cooler.


LG48

I'm gonna go with Hiyoko for 3 simple reasons: 1. She's too funny, watching her shit on the whole cast made me laugh so much and >!when she died the game became slightly more boring (thank god Nagito was there to spice things up a bit)!< 2. She's a much more realistic and overall better written character, when you go through a harsh past you're more likely to end up behaving like Hiyoko than being an over the top yandere anime character like Mikan. 3. >!Even if her development was cut out during the game, she still ends up as a much better person in the anime as you can see not only with how she thanked Mikan by rescuing her, but also the way she welcomed Ryota in the group!< I don't dislike Mikan as a person but I hate what they did with their character by oversexualizing and >!continuosly putting her in situations that ended up damaging the whole group (chapter 3 and the brainwashing)!<


Spq113355

I don’t think you understand Mikan


LG48

What didn't I understand? Pray tell. Edit: figured you wouldn't answer. Throw the stone and then hide the hand, classic behaviour from a fanboy simp.


Chihiro_Stan

Hiyoko had so much potential, she went through >!Mahiru’s death and trial!< and the just >!Died!< I also dislike Mikan as she makes the game more cringy, and is just there for fan-service, not to mention makes me really uncomfortable. Hiyoko is obviously the better choice


InfinitEoin18

WARNING: I will be spoiling Chapter 3 of Danganronpa 2, as well as the final case of Danganronpa 1 and DR3's Despair Arc. Please don't read the spoiler tagged text if you don't want to be spoiled. ​ Considering the flair for my account, it should be very obvious that I'm going to write in favour of Mikan, who is also my favourite character in the series (barring Monokuma). Ironically enough, however, I don't dislike Hiyoko, I actually think she's pretty good. Even if I don't particularly enjoy watching her bully Mikan, I also understand why she does this, and I do believe her character has at least some merit, as does every other character in this series. That being said, this is about why I prefer Mikan, so I'm going to start talking about her. ​ I know a lot of people find Mikan's personality to be grating at times, with her constant apologising, but I personally found her very endearing. She is incredibly polite and always puts others before herself. That being said, she has cripplingly low self-esteem, apologising for basically every action she takes, and combined with her extreme clumsiness she's a character that makes you want to protect her. ​ This is further substantiated by her Free Time Events. After a long life of bullying and abuse from those around her, Mikan became the nervous wreck we see in game. This backstory helps to explain some aspects of her character: for example, being after all the pain she went through she learned to tend to her own wounds, earning her the title of Ultimate Nurse. There is also a somewhat cruel twist to that talent, as Mikan enjoys when people are injured; however it's not that she enjoys the pain of others, but rather that she wants others to depend on her, so she'll never be abandoned. ​ And that leads to the crux of her character: Mikan doesn't want to be abandoned. She believes that even negative attention is better than being forgotten, so she degrades herself in the eyes of others: offering to do embarrassing things for them, hoping to still be useful to them. This even implies that her fanservice moments were done on purpose, which gives some more unsavoury implications to her past (and I completely understand why this would turn people off from her character). As someone who has fears of being abandoned by others, I really relate to Mikan in this regard, although I would never go as far as she does in Goodbye Despair. ​ Moving over to Hiyoko, she comes across as the complete opposite of Mikan. Rude, bratty and overall abrasive, she does not sound like a fun character to be around. She doesn't bother me too much, as I tend to enjoy characters who are outwardly malicious to the others, although I didn't like whenever she started crying to get people to do what she wanted, that usually came off as annoying. The most contentious point of Hiyoko's attitude, however, is her relentless bullying of Mikan. Despite her bullying not being much of an issue for me initially, I drew the line when she specifically singled out the one character who couldn't fight back. This is mostly due to Mikan's reactions to the whole thing. Most of the other characters shrugged off what Hiyoko said, and Kazuichi at least comedically overreacted to these roasts, but Mikan was seriously hurt by what Hiyoko was saying (even if she would prefer bullying over isolation), and that just left a bad taste in my mouth. ​ That being said, after doing Hiyoko's Free Time Events, I've come to understand her perspective, and why she is that way. I don't like it, but I get it. Born as the heiress of her clan, Hiyoko was raised incredibly strictly by her grandmother, and as a result of her upbringing she believed that she was better than most other people, seeing them as slaves to the "royalty" that was the Saoinji bloodline. On top of that, her lineage made her the target of many cruel attempts at sabotage and even assassination from a young age, and she put on this abrasive persona to try and help herself last in the world she was thrust into. After all, she didn't know who she could trust, and wouldn't it be easier for her to push everyone away before they can betray her? ​ In this way, Mikan and Hiyoko are very similar, as they both faced cruel treatment from others in the past and that has greatly affected their personalities in the present, but they are polar opposites in how they choose to cope with this. While Hiyoko is overly aggressive to the point of driving others away, Mikan is overly passive to the point of inviting further misfortune for herself. Maybe Hiyoko sees a bit of herself in Mikan, and hates how weak she used to be. Maybe she bullies Mikan to try and get her to fight back, so she can finally make the torture stop. Again, I do not in any way condone Hiyoko's treatment of Mikan, I'm just speculating on why she does what she does. ​ With all this mentioned, all that's left to discuss is Chapter 3. While this chapter's case is very messy, I'd like to discuss the roles that Mikan and Hiyoko play in it. ​ >!Starting with Mikan, I believe she makes an excellent blackened. While I agree that the Despair Disease is a stupid motive, I do think that Mikan's "killer breakdown" is done very well. After she spent most of the game as a nervous wreck, she is frighteningly calm here, and I must say a part of the reason is so effective is her voice acting; seriously, Stephanie Sheh kills it. Another interesting observation is how she tries to defend her actions: throughout most of the game she is always blaming herself for everything, but here she instead blames everyone else for bullying her, and uses that as justification for the way she is, which I believe to be a clever way to warp one of her key traits into something malicious.!< ​ >!Lastly, there's the topic of her "beloved", who is, to the surprise of absolutely no one, Junko. One aspect of Mikan's character I failed to discuss earlier is her clinginess, to put it politely. As she has been mistreated most of her life, whenever she finds someone who treats her kindly, she becomes obsessed with that person, and her "relationship" with Junko, while completely unhealthy and toxic, is the natural conclusion of that aspect of her character. Junko is incredibly charismatic and a master manipulator, so it makes sense that she would be able to endear herself to others easily. She is also very talented at instilling despair into others, as we see in Chapter 6 of the first game. As Mikan herself said, her "beloved" is the only one who showed her kindness, and as I mentioned earlier, she is willing to do anything to keep people from abandoning her, so it makes perfect sense that she would be incredibly loyal to Junko to the point of killing in her name. Even without the brainwashing plot point from Despair Arc, this is a logical progression of Mikan's character.!< ​ >!Overall, while I don't like Chapter 3 as a whole, Mikan's reveal as the blackened and character transformation is one of the few redeeming qualities of that case. Her breakdown was super well done and the truth of her identity was an incredible end to her character, as well as a great promise for what would come after.!< ​ >!This brings me to Hiyoko's part in Chapter 3, which unfortunately means discussing her tragic death. This is the main problem many have with her character, myself included. They were setting up a redemption arc for her, learning to be a better person, but she is killed by Mikan before she can complete this arc, which just reeks of missed potential. While it does make sense for Mikan to kill Hiyoko (even with the Despair Disease in mind), it also makes her development seem like wasted time. While the obvious solution would be to make Hiyoko a survivor, I wouldn't exactly agree with that sentiment. Personally, I found the whole "X should have lived instead of Y" talk to be really annoying, as I don't want to say that someone shouldn't have survived a Killing Game; I also don't want to imply that Hiyoko SHOULDN'T have survived, but I believe the survivor lineup is fine the way it is.!< ​ >!If I had to make a change to her writing, I wouldn't have Hiyoko go through a redemption arc. Rather, I'd go in the opposite direction. Have her be unable to move past her grief, which only becomes worse after everyone seems to have completely forgiven Fuyuhiko for causing Mahiru and Peko's deaths. This would lead to her becoming even harsher on the rest of the cast, and pushing everyone away, which would lead directly to her death. Granted, I'm not a professional writer so my take isn't anything special; as a matter of fact it would make her death even more obvious, but it wouldn't be setting up a plot that goes absolutely nowhere.!< ​ Overall, I do believe these are both strong characters and either one would be a good choice to win, but I believe that Mikan is a more fully realised character while Hiyoko is more of a waste of potential.


meglolz

I will admit that it's been a while since I have played the games, so please take my memory with a grain of salt. My opinions are based on what I remember (so obvs I could be misremembering things) - My vote is for **Mikan** because her story impacted me more as a player and as I understood the Dangan Universe at that time. Hiyoko is a character I wanted to like, but ultimately couldn't. I agree, like many of you, that her time was cut short (which is also impactful in it's own way, I'll get to that.) From the moment we met her, Hiyoko was mean and cruel just for the sake of it. She was literally squishing ants for funzies because she had the power to do so. Someone mentioned that she invited Hajime to play the first time they met, but I think it was really an invitation to squish ants with her, which is not the same thing as a friendly game of tag. There were moments where Hiyoko was more likable - like when Mahiru helped her tie her kimono. The reaction Hiyoko had was a human one and I could see that she had more depth to her than just being a bully. >!After Mahiru was killed!<, I even *hoped* that her character would develop a little more from there and that she was shaping up to be a better person. However, Hiyoko's time was cut short, and honestly it left me with a little bit of *despair.* Just like in the real world, life can end, regardless of where you are in your story or development. And for no good reason. That was impactful - before her story, I felt that the characters who had been killed had either had no real story, their itself death was impactful, or the characters themselves had a chance to "end" their chapter (with a monologue or something.) With Hiyoko, it was abrupt - something that is obviously not well received but I found it to be a well done reminder. It is a killing game after all. Okay, on to Mikan - I will say now that I am doing the analysis, Hiyoko has some stronger points to her character in terms of potential. No one can deny that she had *potential* for strong character growth. But Mikan had more impact while she was around. I am going to skip the autopsy aspect because it was either she did that or we got more Monokuma files - really just a technicality from what I recall. Mikan as a character was relatable - at least to me - as someone who was bullied and often could only get "bad" attention from others. Mikan also genuinely wanted to help the group and you could see that she was growing as a person just by helping. You could see her forming bonds with the others and learning that not everyone is mean and out to hurt others. When her friends were getting sick with no real reason, she sacrificed herself to help them even if it meant being afflicted herself. The twist of the >!Despair Disease!< was one that I didn't see coming. It wasn't well executed looking back, but I still enjoyed the twist it provided to the story and Mikan's character especially. Someone who sought to help and found meaning in helping others (and being depended on by others) was twisted into >!death itself.!< >!Mikan killed two of her friends (seemingly at random?) just because she could (I don't remember the exact rationale, but I remember feeling it was random). She felt the despair of remembering what her life was like before the Island and all the friendship she found there. I am assuming that she didn't forget the new memories she made with her friends on that island, which means that she felt so strongly about her old life, her love of Junko, and the despair before that she reverted back to her old self even though she knew another version of life existed. That was supremely impactful to me playing through the game the first time. The whole idea that these characters that I had grown to love may have a *very* dark side also was very impactful and also attributed to the overall *despair* of the story. Like I really do remember being like, "how the f*ck does everything get SO messed up that this happens?" Looking back now, I am more unnerved at the events of that chapter because it was just a taste for what was to come with the Remnants of Despair/the events that led the class as a whole into Despair.!< Anyway, TL;DR: **Hiyoko was mean but deserved better and Mikan is sweet in her own twisted way. My vote is for Mikan because she helped tell the story - without her it could have been told another way, but I feel that the alternatives may not have been as impactful to me as a player.**


Himiko_Yumeno555

I can't say anything because it's gonna be highly biased towards Mikan, apologies.


Apple_gun

It's fine as long as you try to look into the other character too. It's a given that some of the votes will be biased


InfinitEoin18

Isn't that the whole point of this competition though?


BRUHGUY888

We are on the same boat


Agileguy404933

I too am on this boat


Color901

I am a rare breed of human that for some odd reason loves both Hiyoko and Mikan equally with them both taking up spots in my top 5. But the thing is these two seem like such opposites with Hiyoko not giving a shit on what she says and Mikan who is so worried about what she does and what people think that it is extremely hard to say which is better based off of character alone due to difference in personality and for many it will come down to who was less annoying. If you were tired of Hiyoko's nasty behavior and sympathized for Mikan you will say Mikan wins and if you were tired of Mikan's whiny behavior and were fine with Hiyoko's behavior than Hiyoko will win. Either way I say these two characters are both fantastic and I personally love them however as to choose a winner I don't think that its possible to pick personally. So to me they both win.


Jack_slasher

don't need to be psychic to know who's winning *this*


ArcticFox19

Are you sure? I was certain that >!Junko!< would win over >!Tsumugi!<, but I was proven wrong. Not to mention that each side is extraordinarily hateable.


Jack_slasher

Good point. I can't argue with the facts.


SubwayBossEmmett

I assumed it would be closer to being split but looks like its leaning hard Hiyoko I just... ugh I think Hiyoko is just more of a waste of potential than Mikan is when it comes down to it ~~also insulting unfunny on hiyoko's side, at least mikan gets an occasional punchline~~


FlowerOnCrack

Agreed. If Hiyoko had actually gotten a proper character arc like Fuyuhiko, I would be much more likely to put my vote towards her- but without it, she isn't as good as Mikan, and how Mikans backstory intertwines almost perfectly with her personality. Mikan is a good subversion of the shy girl trope- Hiyoko is just a rather unfunny character (Which is even more obvious now that I'm playing V3- Kokichis and Mius lines are actually really funny because they have good quips) that had somewhat decent writing and a lot of potential for a character arc that never truly happened.


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SubwayBossEmmett

2-1’s moment of ruining teruteru’s alibi was hilarious


spooky-mcgooky

my votes for hiyoko purely because i too find immense joy in spiting others


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your_local_loser564

My vote goes to mikan. She's there as a pity character at the beginning but you slowly start to understand why she is the way she is after the free time events. She's there for anyone going through the same sort of trauma she has put up with. She's a sweet as can be and yet very misunderstood and abused.


R-Elevener

My heart is with Mikan. I guess I'm gonna do my part and dust off an old short writeup I did about MY reasons for liking her. I won't address Hiyoko here, that task is for her fans. Here goes: Mikan is my favorite character of the franchise. By a landslide. Normally, characters with tragic backstories tend to get my attention a lot. But I find her character especially outstanding. Most of the stuff she does and dialogue she has can be linked to her past and the life she's had to gone through (despised by her parents, constantly bullied and hitted in school, even her hair is a direct cause of this...). Her past is so important, that her talent as nurse is more of a practice matter than natural talent, in contrast with many other characters. She was hurt so often that she had to learn to heal herself, and she got really good at it. Of course, that also payed a toll on her mind; Mikan's strategy is trying to avoid indifference at all cost, which is a common trait in kids that have been neglected and mistreated from a very young age. On the other hand, she also wants to avoid being hated on, which is more of a consequence of her school life. That's why she acts so compliant, because she is afraid of giving others a reason to dislike her, and she will go the extra mile to help others, even when it backfires against her. (Compliant personality). Some people I've read think that since her priority is avoiding INDIFFERENCE first and HATE second she likes being picked on. That's not true, she's not a masochist. But being so deprived of attention, you'll take anything you can get. *For instance, if you were starving and someone threw food at you at the floor, that doesn't mean you like eating from the ground, like a dog. But you are really hungry, so you will take anything they give you, even if it's inhumane. To quote Mikan: "Here, I'm fine for the first time in my life. Jabberwock Island is like a paradise to me; no one is trying to hurt me here, no one is putting out cigarettes on me, throwing me darts or mocking me and scribbling on me" Mikan has another unfortunate sentence in her final FTE, which many people have misinterpreted, something along the lines of: "I became a nurse because I wanted to help people, but also, because it made me feel powerful, they were having it worse than me, so they needed me and they will follow my instructions". People think of this as: "Oh, she bad, she mistreats patients and malpractices on purpose". I don't think that's the case at all. It striked me as Mikan willing to be the difference, offering herself to be the help she would have loved to have for her back then. Knowing Mikan, she wouldn't risk getting the hate of her patients (and there's also the Hypocratic Oath...). Plus, I don't think that's a bad thing, her job is the first place where she can feel USEFUL, and empowered while doing something good, and being thanked for it! There's no such thing as pure altruism, we all help others (partially) to feel good about ourselves as well. Many people like to toss around the fanservice issue too. I don't even think it's bad. I didn't even think of it until I entered the fandom. The scenes where she falls are not something to be aroused; they are pitiful, and made me feel really bad for her. They don't even happen that often, too (DR3 aside, but we all know how that is for everyone). One is even useful for the trial, and them as a whole can give an insight of Mikan's past and mind...assuming of course they're just not her being a total anxious clutz. In any case, there's something that bothers me much more than her "fanservice"; it's her totally wasted development thanks to 2-3 (Hiyoko had the same fate, too). It is enfuriating to see how Kodaka gave her such an interesting story, complex psyche and compelling personality...and at some point they totally gave up on her and decided to use her as a mere plot device. It seems >!foreshadowing Junko's actions!< was more important than Mikan herself. And they didn't doubt to to make that clear both in DR2 and DR3. But that doesn't make me hate her, on the contrary, it makes me like her more for what they did to her! To end this essay, I just think she's sweet and cute. Her FTEs and especially her Island Mode are a treasure, and are the most enjoyable content of her. I love her design and I feel attracted to that kind of personality. I have a natural tendency to help and protect others, so there was no way Mikan wouldn't end up being my favorite. Hated by the writers, her past classmates, most of the in-game cast and a good part of the fandom...I can't help but love her and wanting to give her the biggest hug. I know this is all over the place, I haven't been around here or done some analysis on Mikan in a long long time, but I still hope this will make you see Mikan in another light and give her the chance life didn't give to her :) Pro-tip: Listen to her JP voice acting. It's much better than the English one, especially for the story dialogues.


Apple_gun

And here i thought you got kidnapped so you can't post it here lmao. big agree on the japanese voice


R-Elevener

Ahahaha, nope. I'm good as ever. I just try not to get too involved with this sub. But I guess from time to time people miss me :P


IrisHazakura

**Mikan Tsumiki, the untold story:** The title is comparison between two characters, I don't hate Hiyoko but I'm going to talk about Mikan independently. 2-3 is a bad case and it hurts both of them (and Ibuki as well.) Mikan is actually the best character in Danganronpa, having the most potential wasted because of (2-3). But is that all of it? It's actually more than that. While anime and media has a lot of characters similar to Mikan, Mikan is really unique and exceptional, she has a complex side, a clear path for development (unlike other Danganronpa characters) and her connection to the main character isn't forced. To give an example, Mikan is way better than both >!Hinata and Orihime!< from Naruto and Bleach >!(although I like them and their connections with the main characters) and her connection to the main protagonist is better than them.!< Mikan starts as the abused and traumatized girl that got a chance in proving herself. That's alone a great and already made way for development. If Mikan survived, that would be the most meaningful survival in Danganronpa. In addition to that, her talent would make cases harder to occur but because the game's format and 2-3, the writers removed her which is cruel and unfair. I don't wish what happened to Mikan happens to other characters, I think characters should be dealt with more carefully. The greatest path of development was all gone, for what? Nothing. 2-3 was an extreme unfairness to Mikan. The girl has already developed and still has potential development, but it wasn't only the case result but the case details as well. Mikan is the only character that wasnt allowed to talk and interact normally with Hajime after the case and the others. She wasn't allowed to to exist, a character that was about to get the most explosive character development was gone. Improving her self-esteem, survival, her connection with the main character, her useful talent, and more are all gone. There is nothing. To prove how extremely unfair that was to Mikan, let's take a similar example from DRV3 >!where Gonta is still allowed to communicate although how the case was and how he didn't know and it was cruel but at the end, proper communication happened. Mikan, unfortunately, didn't get a chance to communicate.!< If you want to make her a "culprit" so bad, why don't you give her an emotional moments just like others? Mikan is sweet and innocent. She has a great backstory. She tries to help others. She wanted to do her best and she was unfortunately removed. If the girl was already abused to an unbelievable degree, it is wrong to abuse her in the game, that was atrocious. A girl that wasn't allowed to live in her past, wasn't allowed to live in the game. And all that happened for a girl that suffered a lot and despite that became a nurse and helped others. The game presents the sexual side and this causes a big misunderstanding, people should understand what abuse and traumas does even if it's a fictional character. What people see about Mikan isn't "fanservice" but a result of getting abused and bullied throughout her life. If Mikan is understood well, that means you know an amazing and sweet girl. Mikan needs care and help, she doesn't need judgemental people. Was it the first time you see a "fanservice"? Is that a reason for hating an abused character? Characters are a living thing in your head, they are not different than real people in that aspect. Hating Mikan because of her past, trauma, sexuality or whatever thing is the same thing as what abusers do to her. Mikan actually cares about helping others to the degree that was unfortunately the reason for the stupid virus thing in 2-3. If Mikan wasn't helpful and stayed away, nothing would happened to her. But because she did all of that help, she is rewarded with that? A brutal case that deletes her from existence then humiliates her body which is something equivalent to corpse mutilation. There are limits even in fictional settings to what or why things should be done. What did we get from 2-3 or Mikan's loss? What value, story or meaning is there? Nothing. It's just an abuse of an already abused girl. The friendship events shows how Mikan suffered and has a lot of problems and a wide range of mental problems. She suffered from torture, sexual abuse, negligence, bullying, and many more. She couldn't handle that and she became a nurse because how she was abused and wounded regularly. Its natural and logical for the protagonist to take her side. Even in the main story, it was cruel to Hajime as well, because he was the only one who believed in Mikan and wasn't a bully. There is also the island mode that fortunately exists to allow Mikan to live and experience new things. For Mikan, the friendship and Island mode forms a logical connection to each other and that's the plot and the development that she weren't allowed to get in the main story. There are a lot of amazing aspects of Mikan, and all of this is there despite what she suffered from. Mikan helps others, really wants to have fun and try new things, she is smart and likes reading, she worries about the ones she loves and cares about, she tries her best to improve, she works hard on her talent and nursing which also causes her to be tired. Mikan needs a proper environment and space to exist and progress naturally (unlike the main story). I could write more and more about Mikan, but here also why she is unique. Her name which is cute and means a fruit (orange or tangerine). Her design, the way of talking, the interactions. She is really a unique nurse and the best one. Mikan is the sweetest girl that faced the most cruel, atrocious and unfair treatment in fiction.


InfinitEoin18

Ironic that you compare Mikan to Hinata and Orihime since they all have the same English voice actress.


Estebangc206

**• I vote for Mikan •** Ok, so here is my opinion. ►Opinion of Mikan: \-Personal opinion: So, Mikan is one of my 3 favorite characters. And, if you are wondering, is not because the *Fanservice*, I actually didn't really care about that. But, what I love about her, is her personality, I really like shy characters. I am more for the side of introverted characters that are kind, likes to help others and will never hurt someone, that's why I love her. Also her backstory is pretty deep and heavy, she suffers a lot :( And, I want to help her, I want become her friend, and let her know, there can be good people on this world, that doesn't want to hurt her, that we can be friends with no violence. (Yea, I know is a fictional character, don't remind me please, \*snif, snif\*). So, I really want to love her, to let her know that she can be *loved* more than *recognized* :( \-Objetive opinion. I think i said most of it on the personal opinion, but, anyways. She is a good character, she treats the other ones good, the is very important because her Autopsy >!Well, the time that she lasted :(!< She is not irrelevant to the plot, Edit: like, on the anime, she takes care of Mitarai, she also does the medicine that cures the ones that got poisoned on *Future arc*. What would we do without her?? End. (Yea, a lot of objetive stuff •-•) ►Opinion of Hiyoko: Is personally my least favorite character. She is just annoying. She is mean with the other ones (especially to our Mikan that is always suffering ): ) what makes me so mad. And, she is the worst, she is rude, manipulative, evil, she always offend people. I am the guy that totally hate that kind of attitude. She is not someone morally good. I just, can't tolerate her attitude. She's gone too far. No one deserves to be treated like that. "That is funny" is your justification, I don't think is funny for the ones who are getting offended by her >:( ►Final stuff "She wants attention" is not a reason for disliking her. Why cant you understand all she went through, all that traumas and suffer. I know she is doing her best to keep going, and live her life :( Mikan will never hurt someone >!(She murdered on the killing game because she was affected by the disease, it wasn't her fault at all)!< . From the other side, Hiyoko hurts everyone with her words, and kill little insects also >!(Even she isn't under mind control)!<. If you say she has a good backstory and all that stuff, why can't **she** prove it by herself, by her behavior. Why are you blaming Mikan, and calling her a Yandere? is not her fault she was >!affected by the despair disease!<. If your favorite character would get >!affected by that!<, Would you like the other ones to blame him/her when is not his/her fault at all?? :( ​ (Reposted also, because the last one got removed, I think)


tommygun1945

I mean Mikan legitimately wanted to cripple Hajime in island mode so she would stay with him and how is Hiyoko evil, like did she murder anyone, lol no


PadlockAndThatsIt

She killed them crabs


PhotojournalistLocal

I disagree that Hiyoko is evil. She may be unpleasant, but she’s not the worst person around. While her bullying towards Mikan is intolerable, I think Hiyoko is lucky that she gets away with it. I find it a little funny how Hiyoko gets away with her bad deeds (bullying Mikan and Kazuichi and crushing small animals) while Mikan gets punished for her good deeds (nursing Nagito, Akane, and Ibuki who were infected with the despair disease). But we *can* agree that Hiyoko is an ungrateful bitch considering that Mikan doesn’t remotely have a grudge against her. Tbh, I wish Mikan would; it’d be way more relatable.


nefertivity

i prefer to judge scrum debates based on who's more interesting/better written so i here i go. i like hiyoko better. first of all her design is awesome. the banana hair, outfit, and shortness. danganronpa never fails to make a visually pleasing character. and i like how she had a growth spurt. she went from adorable to gorgeous. now onto her personality/character. i like how she developed a mean personality to defend herself from those jealous of her fame and family. it's realistic and kinda dark, if you think about it. her childhood must have been sort of traumatic, as it's not uncommon for famous people to be targeted for assassinations (it's actually canon that she was). although i wont deny mikan's past was worse. but im not going to compare trauma here. although i dont appreciate her bullying 90% of her classmates, i do think that its a great character trait for her. and i like how she eventually became slightly friendlier and considered people other than mahiru a friend.


pokiroll

I will now be stating an argument in favor of our favorite ant squisher. ​ Hiyoko has an advantage to me at two points: design and development. ​ design wise, come on. take a look at these two characters and tell me which one sticks out more, the 4 foot 2 girl in a bright orange kimono with banana hair or a normal sized brunette girl in an apron? this isn't to say mikan's design is bad by any means, I just think that hiyoko's design really conveys who she is: a child like girl. I don't think her design is deceptive at all, personally. Children are mean, children are brats. That's kind of what you get with Hiyoko, except her backstory explains (not excuses, **EXPLAINS)** her actions because she's a late teen. I feel like all we get from mikan is the bandages. Mikan's design still looks good, it just doesn't do as good of a job as explaining who she is as a character. development (welcome to spoilerland) >!man, I am pissed about chapter 3 for the both of them, but honestly, I feel like hiyoko was cheated more. she was originally supposed to survive after mahirus death, and I feel like she could have added so much to the story. She was starting to see her other classmates as PEOPLE, and I feel like the team's decision to kill her off was totally half assed. We don't even know the murder weapon, if I recall. However, at least we got some development from her in chapter 2. With mikan, the only development she gets at all is in the chapter where she dies in a fanservice bonanza, and despair disease isn't something she really has control over. I feel like it could have been a better chapter for both of them.!< ​ ok bye


Lj_theoneandonly

**MR ANTS DUHHH** Actually my vote goes to Mikan. When I look back on the game I realised I definitely enjoyed Hiyoko’s character more as for some reason I really enjoy asshole characters but when I realise that beyond her dark backstory she had barely any development. While you could say the same about Mikan, her tragic backstory is made a lot more visible by her design as well as all the forcible fanservice moments (which is implied to be on purpose unintentionally as a means to draw attention due to her lack of it). I generally believe her to be a more developed and deeper character than what we got in chapter 3, which is a flawed case more-so from the writers perspective and less-so due to how the made Mikan remember her despair. Overall this is really close to me, neither are my favourite characters but if I had to choose it would be Mikan.


MidoriDraws

Hiyoko I just fucking love gremlins


weirdoinahat

...I don’t have enough energy to enter a big writeup but my vote probably goes to Hiyoko. So and say, both have haters, but both have small fanbases, too, and I prefer Hiyoko, not because of her personality, but her being well written despite most likely coming from a trash family like Mikan. anywho, I have no fucking clue who’s gonna win due to the massive hate between both, but Mikan might win but I might regret saying this later so maybe Hiyoko too. edit: change that, looking at the votes and comments, Hiyoko’s got the higher chance another edit: why do I keep adding stuff to this, I was seeing loads of long Hiyoko writeups a second ago and now I’m seeing ‘def Mikan’ often followed by long paragraphs about how interesting she is the final edit I promise: fuck, this scrum winner really is indefinite and reading the comments is sorta nerve-wrecking. I might’ve voted but I’m rooting for both sides, I like participating but its damn harder than you think when it comes to two good/extremely bland characters


PhotojournalistLocal

I’m just going for Hiyoko. Because she has more potential.


sayanabanana

........I dont think we ready for this conversation!


CeeNnSayin

Hiyoko isn’t mean, she just tells it as it is. You can’t hate the girl for being the voice of truth.


Estebangc206

Sure sure . . . **So, are you telling me all that mean things she said to Mikan were truth??!** **Are you telling me that those crocodile tears to manipulate people are truth?** *I don't believe you are saying the truth. .*


tommygun1945

Well i wouldn't say her Mikan comments were correct but she was spot on with calling out Kazuichi and Kuzupeko


ChishNFips87

Look, normally I’d go Mikan > Hiyoko… But upon further speculation, I’d like to see more of how >!Hiyoko could’ve been had she lived.!<


sonjavocado

My vote goes to Hiyoko. I find her hilarious and relatable and I think she is very well written. I could spend hours explaining why I love her Mikan on the other hand makes me very uncomfortable at times and her constant apologizing and "Please don't hate me!!"s really stress me out, plus the experience I have had with her fanbase is very negative and had lowkey ruined her for me. Still, I feel like she had a lot of wasted potential.


DanganronpaSAS

Hiyoko for sure. She had much better writing and I enjoyed her character. Mikan always kind of annoyed me with.. mostly everything. She wa really cute and I wanted to like her, but her voice the whole ‘I’m sorry’ thing, and especially the tripping. It just made me uncomfortable. Like, eventually I wasn’t even mad at Hiyoko for bullying Mikan anymore I was just annoyed at Mikan. Mikan gets literally no development throughout the story. I know it’s a little bit of a controversial take but she really is just a fan service character in my eyes


spec_ops_bruh

These comments are gonna be a warzone


JustGPZ

Mikan makes the game cringy is and is fan-service for the nerds who take the bait, Hiyoko is with no doubt the better choice


SubwayBossEmmett

Implying sassy loli isnt a far worse type of bait to others


AfroWarrior27

At least the sassy loli doesn't have gross and out of place fanservice.


Shardar12

She does, im guessing you dont know of the mythical "M A N S N U T" hidden scene?


AfroWarrior27

Shit, that destroys my argument.


ghostfire_358

Her fanservic was used as evidence in multiple chapters


AfroWarrior27

That doesn't make it any less gross or annoying.


HiyokoSaionjiiiiiii

I usually don't take part in these but I have to now. My vote absolutely goes to Hiyoko. I'm a big fan of Hiyoko and she's very misunderstood, her backstory being very overlooked by the fandom. Just like other characters including Teruteru, people only look at one aspect of a character, completely ignoring the writing, backstory or other aspects of their personality. Hiyoko is a very well written character with her backstory combined with her role in chapter two, where she played a very big role. I don't want to get into detail because I don't have too much time in my hands, but I hope I made it clear why I like Hiyoko. Also Mikan makes me uncomfortable with her fanservice, backstory and just her behaviour, I really don't like her at all.


dirtywadofgum

i personally find hiyoko to be better. mikan was more helpful in trials, but with that aside, she had little to no character development. for the time of the game, she was a child who cried every chance she could. she was nor funny nor had me being sad for her >!apart from her backstory!< hiyoko on the other hand, who wasn’t too helpful in trials, was closer to character development than mikan, still cried, >!but only during mahirus death in chapter 2!< but most of the time had me laughing and had me being sad for her during chapter 2


Parfait_of_Markov

u/TheGreenRigidArrow this is your time to shine!


TheGreenRigidArrow

Thank you for the tag!


Evergreenwolfy18

Lol Mikan killed my favorite character also her execution was pretty weird so hiyoko takes the cake for the best person


TheMysteriousWarlock

“The one that isn’t ~~kokichi~~ Hiyoko.”


Mallow-kun

Not gonna bother writing a wall of text. Mikan is cute and I feel bad for her so my vote goes to her. Hiyoko just irritated me to no end. Also I don't mind Mikan being the subject of sexy hijinx. Sue me.


OrganicHotChoco

Oh u/Funny_Insult_Banana


Funny_Insult_Banana

Hiyoko will win, I have faith


OrganicHotChoco

Same, the banana will never fall


AfroWarrior27

Does anyone find it funny as hell that Komaru and Toko's scrum debate throughout a week only had 60 comments. While Mikan and Hiyoko by it's third day have over **200 Comments?*** Like, god damn. XD


the2thomasklu8

Well, like 40 of those comments are yours.


AfroWarrior27

I do tend to be more active in the more interesting Scrum Debates. That much is true.


coolsandwitch

Hiyoko is better by a long shot. Mikan makes me plain uncomfortable.


the_blockhead_tm

Hello, hello! I do think both characters have some degree of merit to being deemed better or worse compared to one another, so any opinion is perfectly valid. However, when it's a toss-up between my favorite character - Mikan - and one of my least favorite characters - Hiyoko - it's not really a contest. Therefore, I side with Mikan for this debate. In all sorts of games, I'm often drawn towards the shy and/or introverted characters for my pick as favorite. So when I started Danganronpa 2, I was naturally drawn to Mikan. But Mikan is a tad different from other characters I think of like that. Like them, she's quiet, tends to stutter, and is caring to some degree, but u like them, her biggest flaw isn't that she wants to be alone, it's that she wants attention. More specifically, she wants attention that isn't negative; she's a girl so positively broken by abuse that even the slightest amount of kindness is foreign to her, as seen in just about any conversation she has with Hajime, a person she eventually warms up to in her Free Time Events. She's a little kooky, sure, but I'd argue that's mostly due to being afraid of losing the few things she has that genuinely like her. She's a quiet, caring individual at the cost of a somewhat selfish yet understandable desire to be loved, >!a desire that is taken advantage of by Junko, who uses this weakness brainwash her into succumbing to despair earlier than her classmates.!< Even the damn fanservice can be explained by her desire for attention and love. This paints her in a tragic light: she's a good person, but she's emotionally vulnerable and a tad selfish, namely because of her desires. All of that culminates in her talent: the Ultimate Nurse. Mikan is a nurse >!because she would often treat her own wounds as a kid, since nobody else would do it,!< and is a damn good one at that. Mikan's ability comes in use a lot throughout her appearances in the story - she can analyze bodies to perform autopsies, take care of the sick and injured and ultimately has a positive impact on investigations. >!At least until Chapter 3, when they turn this around and make it so her autopsies were intentionally false, prior to it being revealed that she also caught a strain of the Despair Disease.!< This means she leaves an impact using her ability. Hiyoko, on the other hand, I don't feel so strongly about. If Mikan is the prey, then Hiyoko is the predator - she's the bullying type. Rude, foul-mouthed, oftentimes cruel. She's distrustful because of people in her past, and often takes out all her anger on the people around her, namely Mikan, who she gets the biggest reactions out of. Unfortunately, she's completely unable to take some of her own medicine - oftentimes crying or showing otherwise childish tendencies when insulted. It's not all bad, though, as she proves to actually be quite nice to people she believes she can trust, such as Mahiru. >!This adds a bit of character to her in Chapter 2 and 3, as she's genuinely upset when Mahiru dies, and is unable to forgive Fuyuhiko when she learns he ordered her death.!< Overall, however, she's painted to be fairly unlikable - which is a common character trait in Danganronpa. This is made even worse when her ability is kept in mind - she's the Ultimate Traditional Dancer. This ability is not particularly useful, especially compared to Byakuya, another fairly unlikable character, who is intelligent and often assists in the investigations. Alas, this means that Hiyoko's ability holds no real impact on anything other than her outfit - which establishes her relationship with Mahiru. Overall, I'm giving my vote to Mikan - I believe she's a bit more complex, generally more likable, and a lot more useful than Hiyoko is. Plus, she's cute.


Oofpeople

Hiyoko deserves better than what she got. I cast my vote for her.


nightpandy

People should understand that hiyoko was trying to make Milan Stronger by bullying her and people should know more that hiyoko was also bullied if hiyoko >!survived!< she could've seen Mikans >!despair!< and probably cried but her and fuyuyhko could both get their character development


Estebangc206

**Bullying is the solution of nothing. If she really wanted to help, she could have done something else. You are just painting hiyoko's bullying.** Do you think on a real school, if they find someone that bullies, he will can just argue with that *"I was trying to make him/her stronger"*? **I don't think so**


PhotojournalistLocal

Hiyoko’s bullying towards Mikan would be more unacceptable in a *western* school. The school they go to, Hope's Peak Academy, is a *Japanese* school. Reminder: Danganronpa is a *Japanese developed* franchise set in *Japan*. Japan technically has a more apathetic view to bullying. Conformity is SUPER NORMAL in that country and a person who sticks out from the crowd will *EASILY* get scorned. This is a problem with Japanese schools. When it comes to the bully victims, they either have to deal with it and treat it as something minor or get blamed that it’s their own fault they’re being bullied in the first place. Futoukou (不登校) is a term for children who refuse to go to school. School exist for, not only education, but also social skills. It’s possible for a child to be unfitting to society in the future if bullying and futoukou continues. Plus, Japanese bullying is way more vicious than in the west.


Estebangc206

Well, but that doesn't change the fact that bullying is still bad, right? It doesn't matter the context or what does the school do about it. *It is just bad.*


Full_ronpa

And Japanese people had scrutinized Japanese schools constantly for allowing this kind of trend to continue existing in school environment. Just because it is the supposed norm in Japan doesn't mean it is a right thing for Hiyoko to do.


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Estebangc206

(Also, as you can see. I am not an expert writing •-•)


Estebangc206

Wait. Was my comment deleted??. Because I can still see it.


Sspockuss

I have no idea why this was removed by automod. I have approved it so it can be visible. If a comment is removed, you can still see it, it's only invisible to everyone else.


AfroWarrior27

> She is not someone morally good. I just, can't tolerate her attitude. She's gone too far. No one deserves to be treated like that. " Compared to innocent Mikan who killed people for incredibly dumb reasons?


milfsareswag

I’ll have to go with Mikan much like everyone else. She just had more of a character then Hiyoko. Hiyoko’s character was mainly just being mean to everyone but Mahriu, like Hiyoko is still a good character. If you’ve watched the animation and played the whole dv2 game, you can see Mikan clearly has a more complex character. Hiyoko is still a good character, but imo Mikan is much better.


TheRedDeath2

I'm a Hiyoko stan. She's a character who was robbed of good development. I really did enjoy her FTAs, and hrr relationship with Mahiru was one of my favorites. Then there's Mikan. I've never been a fan of her. Mikan's character starts to get really boring and repetitive after the first chapter, and her fanservice is way too much. At least she was somewhat helpful for evidence, but even >!her execution is the worst in the franchise.!< Add a point to Hiyoko.


Legitimate-Fault1368

I'm gonna have to go with Mikan here, because while I think Hiyoko had a lot of potential as a character, it's kind of hard to like someone who views everyone else as being beneath her, I think Mikan is way more interesting. Mikan has an even more twisted way of interacting with people than Hiyoko does, it's just that she's the one who gets bullied instead of being the bully. She's constantly trying to satisfy everyone and takes any and all insults while hardly protesting. It's implied that she puts up with insults, threats, and verbal abuse because she has the belief that being ignored is worse than being hated, which is an attitude that is a lot more relatable than Hiyoko's. And I think her voice actor is really good, especially during the chapter 3 trial. That trial is actually one of my favorites to replay because of Mikan, despite the popular opinion that the trial sucks. I don't like how she's used for fanservice, but that isn't her fault.


ghostfire_358

I vote for Mikan because Hiyoko just makes me uncomfterble with her personality.


YourLocalTaku

Without any doubt, I’m voting Mikan Backstory: This one is a dead giveaway. Hiyoko’s backstory is sadly quite barren in comparison to Mikan. Hints of her backstory are sparser throughout the game, from her design to her dialogue. Further more, while most detest her relationship with Junko, it cements her as an interesting antagonist and adds another level to her characterization Character: Personally speaking, this could go either way, yet it’s leaning towards Hiyoko. The two are rather bare with this, however I believe that if a characterization moment such as Mikan starting to stand up for herself, possibly after finding out about the events seen in act 2, it could have far better complimented her fall into despair. There was missed potential, as seeing a character develop, to start to embody hope, only to brutally contrast that message, would have been perfect. Design: The designs of these characters are on point. The sprites clearly radiate how the two hold themselves, yet it goes to Mikan as it hints far more into her personal life through the bandages Likeability: I like crazies. I can emphasize with both characters to an extent but this goes to Hiyoko because of her efforts such as building the shrine, her relationship with Mahiru, and the lack of unnecessary fan service


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Huge-Enthusiasm7789

i'm going to give this to hiyoko, and this isn't even based on the fact that i dislike mikan and love hiyoko. hiyoko is such a well developed character, >!and i'm really sad that she'd died, maybe if mahiru had stayed alive, the outcome would've changed.!< hiyoko is introduced as a bully, who is depicted to run her mouth wherever she wants, whenever she wants. though after meeting mahiru, slowly but surely, her heart becomes kinder. mikan is just portrayed as naiive, and to me, she doesn't really have a character her only real 'development' point was>! her relationship with junko, but still, she let herself be immensely mistreated by junko (not saying it was her fault, but she was so damn devoted to her that she never did anything about it).!< mikan's character depends so much on others, and that never changes. until >!she dies!<, mikan's confidence is so based on how other characters talk to her and treat her, namely, hiyoko. hiyoko was a big part of mikan's character, and how mikan just >!let herself be bullied by hiyoko!<. hiyoko is not a nice person. she thinks she can say whatever she wants to people and just get away with it. what really makes hiyoko an extremely strong character though, is mahiru, and her self-realisation that she isn't alone. well to summarise, i think that hiyoko had much more of a character than 'angry toddler dancer', and actually got developed by her own self realisation, and other characters, while mikan didn't really have any development, stayed the same the whole time, and to me, she didn't really have a personality. she was just labeled as 'shy yandere nurse who falls in weird positions' thanks for reading lol


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